Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Aug 16, 2023 11:40 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Says more about how dumb we are on these kind of things, than it does anything else. Wonder if KR has thought about sending them a bottle of whiskey? Wouldn't want them getting upset with us.

Hope Saints fail and take it to the Court of Arbitration. Get some extra eyes on it & turn it into a media circus.

There's nothing stopping Wigan or other clubs doing this. I can see how some will say its not a good look for the game but IMO there are two points to consider here...

1. Lees is not Jack Welsby. Him playing the next two games won't be the difference between us winning or losing. That tells me that Saints really must feel they have a chance. There is clearly some spite between Saints and the RFL undoubtedly since the Knowles appeal last year. I know that a lot of clubs still resent Saints over that. Rush clearly has an agenda and a desire to prove his point

2. We have had a lot of bans over the last two years and this is only the 2nd time we have done this so its not as though we challenge everything.

Tonight will be very interesting. If we lose I can definitely see extra games being added (if they are allowed to do that I don't know)

I wish more clubs would take such a stance over such an inconsistent process

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Aug 16, 2023 11:44 am  

I appreciate the process is inconsistent Stu, but the ban is a ban by the rules.

Seems like saints are going out with the attitude that "well you didn't ban him for it so you can't ban us" and whilst it's annoying, nothing ever works that way.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Aug 16, 2023 11:44 am  

Whatever the outcome, it’s a mess. The fact the club feel they have grounds to appeal (twice) just shows how little confidence clubs have in the RFL. Obviously we are more vociferous than most in how we choose to constantly challenge them. Whether that has an adverse affect on how we are treated is a separate argument.

I just hope we know what we are doing and have a strong case. Because if they knock us back again we will just look like cry babies who are refusing to accept the punishment.

On the flip side if we are successful it will just highlight the RFL incompetence even further.

Whatever happens someone is going to look silly; neither of which will look good for the sport as a whole.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Aug 16, 2023 11:55 am  

Stu M wrote:

There's nothing stopping Wigan or other clubs doing this. I can see how some will say its not a good look for the game but IMO there are two points to consider here...

1. Lees is not Jack Welsby. Him playing the next two games won't be the difference between us winning or losing. That tells me that Saints really must feel they have a chance. There is clearly some spite between Saints and the RFL undoubtedly since the Knowles appeal last year. I know that a lot of clubs still resent Saints over that. Rush clearly has an agenda and a desire to prove his point

2. We have had a lot of bans over the last two years and this is only the 2nd time we have done this so its not as though we challenge everything.

Tonight will be very interesting. If we lose I can definitely see extra games being added (if they are allowed to do that I don't know)

I wish more clubs would take such a stance over such an inconsistent process

I'm with you on it. I wish Wigan would challenge more.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:03 pm  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

Whatever the outcome, it’s a mess. The fact the club feel they have grounds to appeal (twice) just shows how little confidence clubs have in the RFL. Obviously we are more vociferous than most in how we choose to constantly challenge them. Whether that has an adverse affect on how we are treated is a separate argument.

I just hope we know what we are doing and have a strong case. Because if they knock us back again we will just look like cry babies who are refusing to accept the punishment.

On the flip side if we are successful it will just highlight the RFL incompetence even further.

Whatever happens someone is going to look silly; neither of which will look good for the sport as a whole.

You're right. It won't look good for the sport at all and it seems to me like the current setup at Saints cares about themselves and nothing else. It's probably led to you winning 4 in a row and a WCC but ultimately the sport is what matters.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:14 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

You're right. It won't look good for the sport at all and it seems to me like the current setup at Saints cares about themselves and nothing else. It's probably led to you winning 4 in a row and a WCC but ultimately the sport is what matters.

What? You’re saying our attitude towards the disciplinary panel is what has led us to winning 4 in a row? Not the world class players, academy set up, coaches, etc? Not sure what you mean here at all.

If you mean our ruthless will to win and our commitment to being the best we can be then yes I agree.

I think every club has a right to stand up for themselves if they are confident they have been in some way “wronged.” I suppose the ends justify the means in most cases so if we are successful tonight then we have 100% done the right thing. If not then we look silly.

I also think every club if truth be told prioritises their own success first and foremost and ultimately “cares about themselves.” And if that means appealing bans when they think they have a strong case then so be it.

Look at Asiata’s comments regarding his tackle technique for example. He’s said he doing what it takes to win and in doing so he is totally ignoring the fact he is putting people in danger. That’s an extreme example of “caring about themselves and nothing else” isn’t it?

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:37 pm  

I'm not saying your attitude towards the disciplinary I'm saying your attitude towards the sport.

Rather than worry about what is good for the sport which perhaps Wigan do too often you only focus on yourselves. The COVID instance for example and taking a break when you felt like it, club officials slagging off players, the disciplinary and match officials (something you've done since 2019) when things don't go your way. Coaches will criticise refs after games, but find me another chairman that has openly criticised an official or a CEO that has criticised the disciplinary.

The attitude seems to be Saints first, RL second.

It isn't necessarily a bad thing and could be seen as simply being win at all costs.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:40 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

I'm not saying your attitude towards the disciplinary I'm saying your attitude towards the sport.

Rather than worry about what is good for the sport which perhaps Wigan do too often you only focus on yourselves. The COVID instance for example and taking a break when you felt like it, club officials slagging off players, the disciplinary and match officials (something you've done since 2019) when things don't go your way. Coaches will criticise refs after games, but find me another chairman that has openly criticised an official or a CEO that has criticised the disciplinary.

The attitude seems to be Saints first, RL second.

It isn't necessarily a bad thing and could be seen as simply being win at all costs.

I think Robert Hicks attending a corporate function at Warrington enjoying their hospitality then refereeing the CC Final 3 days later involving Warrington was rightly called out by McManus.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:41 pm  

So you think he was a cheat?

What about the head of match officials for years being a known Saints fan? Should clubs have called that out every time you won a game from an iffy call?

If he attended that without prior consent from the RFL (Ganson I presume) and turned up in secret and then left with a big brown envelope in his pocket then you would probably have had a point, but I doubt that happened.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:44 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

So you think he was a cheat?

What about the head of match officials for years being a known Saints fan? Should clubs have called that out every time you won a game from an iffy call?

Yes I think they would've been well within their rights to challenge the transparency.