Re: Team V Leeds : Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:16 am  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Defensively yes.

2 touches of magic from Hastings and 1 from Hardaker the rest was average.
We’ve got a lot of average players and it’s reflected in our performances.

Nobody is going to give us a good hiding as we consistently compete really well

Tonight was a repeat of numerous previous performances

All that is true but whilst Leeds had plenty missing you had no centres and French missing who is a an absolute wow of a player . The thing is even when you are not at your best the defense is terrefic and no matter who plays everyone knows their job . Farrell is a nine out of 10 virtually every week and one of the most consistent ever super League forwards .

Re: Team V Leeds : Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:52 am  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Too many poor and bang average forwards and a poor coach offset by great defence and fitness equals nearly men. That’s what we are

Aren't our poor forwards and poor coach quite important when it comes to our great defence and fitness?

Re: Team V Leeds : Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:02 am  

I don't rate Lam as coach by any means but he's got us through the opening fixtures, he has to take credit for that.
He's also been missing French, Manfredi, Gildart, Marshall and Field. All of those are well above average and their absence makes a massive difference to the match squad. Opposition clubs know they only have Hardaker to worry about as a strike player plus Hastings as play maker. That's why they've all gone to match the Wigan pack and then over run the backs. None have succeeded.

When Lam gets his backs out there and the opposition see the quality of Gildart plus French, Marshall and Field then they will have to spread their defences to cope against that level of pace. Good luck to them with that!

Next game with French and Manfredi back I'd like to see a pack starting of Bullock, Powell, Singleton, Farrell, Bateman and Partington. With quality backs that pack will do us very well.

Re: Team V Leeds : Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:14 am  

Cherry_&_White wrote:

Aren't our poor forwards and poor coach quite important when it comes to our great defence and fitness?

Matty Peet defence and fitness coach for fitness I suspect add far more in those areas than Lam.

Lam keeps telling everyone about his attacking philosophy but I haven’t got a clue what that is. I suspect he doesn’t either.

Re: Team V Leeds : Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:33 am  

jonh wrote:

A team that gave the Champions a much tougher game than they gave us last night.

The win was literally never in doubt even when they pulled it back to 8-6.

Are we firing on all cylinders? Absolutely not.

Should we be in a comp that relies on peaking at the end of the season? Absolutely not.

We all know where the issues are but let’s not pretend also Leeds don’t have one of the better packs in the comp. We contained them admirably.

I do sometimes wonder what people expect from the team. Unless we are winning by 50 points we are not a good team it seems.

Seen so many posts from Wigan fans on social media saying “if Leeds had so and so back and if Leeds had done this then it would be a different result”

If my aunty had testicles she’d be my uncle. She doesn’t though so let’s not pretend any different.

Last night without getting out of third gear we beat a team who will be in the top 4 or 5 in the league.

They didn’t really look like scoring once and I include their try which came from a slip giving Briscoe the bit of space and a no look miracle pass to nothing on the 5th tackle. It was a cracking bit of play don’t get me wrong but it was a standard shot to nothing 5th tackle panic play that broke us.

We are clearly not anywhere near our best at the moment which with people missing and playing out of position is to be expected.

Was it a good performance? In my opinion yes,

Can we improve? Yes.

Are we 3 from 3 and still in the cup playing reasonable rugby with an outstanding defence and much to look forward to this year? Again in my opinion, yes.

When we get our injured players back that means Bateman Isa and Farrell in the back row. Too lightweight which compounds the prop issue

Re last night let’s do another scenario aside your 3rd gear proposition.
Let’s assume Gildart Manfredi French and Marshall all play but Hastings out injured.
Leeds same as.
Would/could we have won in third gear against a team shy of a dozen players with zero playmakers on the pitch?

My view is I don’t think we can get much better with the current pack and coach. The squad is out of balance with too many journeymen forwards.
I would totally agree that we could up the intensity and give anyone a game. I think where we would disagree is that you probably think we are capable of winning trophies I think we will get found out over the season due to glaring deficiencies in the pack.

Glad we won last night (I had them on the handicap too) but a bit of a “shrug of the shoulders” type performance. The type of performance we give in most games.
.

Re: Team V Leeds : Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:42 am  

I don’t buy the Bateman, Isa and Farrell are too small line. I don’t get it at all when anybody says it. A giant making 100 metres a game is 100 metres and if a midget makes 200 metres, its 200 metres. They’re not dominated in defence, they make more ground than their opposite numbers in the vast majority of games and as a three they’ll comfortably be the best in the comp when they’re at 11, 12 and 13.

I don’t think we need to look for issues that aren’t there. There is one glaring issue and that is the lack of one bruising prop through the middle to use at the start of games. It’s encouraging IMO that what we need is so obvious. A better goal kicker wouldn’t go amiss but ultimately we have one hole in the team when everyone is fit and available. We can get better with the ball in attack but that was going to be naturally clunky to star with, when you’re minus French, Gildart, Manfredi, Marshall etc and are playing forwards in the back spots.

Re: Team V Leeds : Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:58 am  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Matty Peet defence and fitness coach for fitness I suspect add far more in those areas than Lam.

Lam keeps telling everyone about his attacking philosophy but I haven’t got a clue what that is. I suspect he doesn’t either.

So the things we do well are down to the assistant and the things we do poorly are down to the coach. What are you basing this on?

Lam's none-existent attacking philosophy saw us score the second most points in the league last year. We're not playing free flowing stuff right now but I wouldn't expect us to in round 3 with so many backs missing. He has adapted his strategy to the circumstances to find a way to still win. I'll worry about style points in the summer when we have had time to shake off the rust and have some backs available.

Re: Team V Leeds : Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:22 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

When we get our injured players back that means Bateman Isa and Farrell in the back row. Too lightweight which compounds the prop issue

Re last night let’s do another scenario aside your 3rd gear proposition.
Let’s assume Gildart Manfredi French and Marshall all play but Hastings out injured.
Leeds same as.
Would/could we have won in third gear against a team shy of a dozen players with zero playmakers on the pitch?

My view is I don’t think we can get much better with the current pack and coach. The squad is out of balance with too many journeymen forwards.
I would totally agree that we could up the intensity and give anyone a game. I think where we would disagree is that you probably think we are capable of winning trophies I think we will get found out over the season due to glaring deficiencies in the pack.

Glad we won last night (I had them on the handicap too) but a bit of a “shrug of the shoulders” type performance. The type of performance we give in most games.
.

I really don’t understand Wigan fans desire to make up new scenarios which we can only speculate about.

Very similar on social media.

If and so and so didn’t play so and so did then what would happen?!

It’s a nonsense of which we can only speculate and never get an answer.

What did happen we played with the team we did and we won comfortably without exerting too much energy and not fully firing in attack against a team that had Saints troubled at times last week.

I didn’t at any stage see us losing that game.

It was a solid if not spectacular performance and something to build on.

I’d say we have improved week on week in 2021 and I think there is plenty more to come, which is encouraging.

Re: Team V Leeds : Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:25 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Matty Peet defence and fitness coach for fitness I suspect add far more in those areas than Lam.

Lam keeps telling everyone about his attacking philosophy but I haven’t got a clue what that is. I suspect he doesn’t either.

If that is true, not saying it is it isn’t, but if it is doesn’t Lam being the head coach deserve credit for delegating those duties to other coaches?

Re: Team V Leeds : Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:28 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

So the things we do well are down to the assistant and the things we do poorly are down to the coach. What are you basing this on?

Lam's none-existent attacking philosophy saw us score the second most points in the league last year. We're not playing free flowing stuff right now but I wouldn't expect us to in round 3 with so many backs missing. He has adapted his strategy to the circumstances to find a way to still win. I'll worry about style points in the summer when we have had time to shake off the rust and have some backs available.

I’m basing it on it is their area of expertise. Before Peet came back our defence was pretty average so with no defensive coach I’d park that at Lam’s door.
The head honcho in any organisation worth it’s salt picks up the accolades when things go well and his or her P45 when things go wrong.

What is his philosophy? On Wigan tv for two and a bit years he’s been going on about how he tells the players what he wants and expects. I haven’t got a clue other than give it to Hastings as many times as we we can.

You can have as many backs available as you want but tagged with our pack then I feel we are short of being top dogs and will remain so until it is resolved which won’t I suspect be before 2022

Let’s see how we do over the next 3 weeks when we play a couple of decent teams