Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:59 am  

The Reaper wrote:

To be fair, the MRP weren’t dishing out bans to anything that moved at the time either, so there was much less of this circus.

Very true but why have Knowles, Matatautia, Sironen and Lees being charged 10, 8, 8 and 5 times respectively since the start of 2022, whereas Saints fans 'dirty, grubby, filthy' punchbags in Micky Mac and Morgan Smithies been charged only 4 times and 3 times?

Conspiracy? Witch hunt? A total anomaly? or are they just cleaner players?

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:00 am  

Stu M wrote:

What? How exactly? You must have a very short memory given Ellis was given a few games after the headbutt against Warrington and he is now banned again. Shorrocks sent off a few weeks ago, Isa banned too. They are just the ones off the top of my head. According to you though "there is nothing in any of them" and Wigan are the victims.

You may not think it but after Wellens publicly admitted our discipline was an issue earlier in the season and read the riot act to the players, it is much improved. Matautia had a brain fart in the SF against Leigh but Sironen hasn't been banned for a long time and despite the witch hunt on Knowles from Sunday, he had no case to answer. He didn't throw a punch and wasn't even mentioned in the minutes despite the outcry on social media.

Saints are no angels but then neither were Wigan under Wane who got away with murder at times with the likes of Micky Mc and his dark arts. If any side pushed the rules to the limits it was the Wigan side under Wane. Presumably thats all ok though because you won trophies?

Maybe if other sides had the line speed and aggression of Saints they may be going for 5 in a row and winning a WCC in Australia. Just a thought.

You've completely misunderstood what I was saying.

I meant pushing the boundaries by using loopholes etc. to their own benefit regardless of the validity...you may even say fairness...of what they are doing. I'm specifically referring to appealing appeals, using COVID rules etc. to their advantage. Lees was worthy of a ban. Trying to get it overturned on a loophole is against the spirit of the game. Recognise that principle Stu?

For what it's worth I think the RFL is becoming increasingly incompetent in these matters which is why I added the last sentences.

Apology accepted...

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:10 am  

Double post

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:10 am  

And just as an addendum, please quote where I said the Kade Ellis quarter final was "nothing in it" (sic). I've repeatedly said I was fine with both the sending off and subsequent ban.

I'm less ok with it when similar incidents have now become "head rutting" with no punishment whatsoever.

I'm even less ok when straw man arguments are used about what I did and didn't say.

The Shorrocks one, however, WAS nothing in it. It's been said by fans across the board, ex referees etc that it was an incorrect decision. It was, by far, a more inappropriate ban than the Lees one. It was accepted by Wigan. I'm confident you get the point I'm making here Stu?

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:26 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

I don't remember him calling out foul play against us very often, criticising the disciplinary officials or being part of a process of appealing failed appeals tbh. He clearly instilled aggression and was very open about it, as the WCC coverage highlights. In other words he owned it and that meant we just moved on and didn't go round and round in circles calling conspiracies or having a public battle with the RFL.

If I had a pound for every time a Saints fan called that Wigan team dirty, I'd be extremely rich but we now have a Saints team, who are being pulled by the disciplinary far more often but it's everyone else's fault. We go round and round the houses and the main point gets almost forgotten-Saints have 4 players who can't stop committing offences. It's that simple! Until that changes (or if Saints decide to own it and stop bleating about it), bans will keep coming and accusations of being a dirty team will keep rolling in. Wellens making himself look slightly hypocritical these past 3 weeks is an amusing side show.

Thats my point. I think those 4 players have stopped by and large. Since the Halifax CC game, Knowles has most certainly improved his dsicipline, so too Sironen. Lees hadn't been in trouble for a while before Sunday so there's only really Matautia who seems to be unable to adapt and learn his lesson.

There's no doubt that our discipline has improved as evidenced by the number of charges/bans of late compared to last season and the first part of this season.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:27 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

Very true but why have Knowles, Matatautia, Sironen and Lees being charged 10, 8, 8 and 5 times respectively since the start of 2022, whereas Saints fans 'dirty, grubby, filthy' punchbags in Micky Mac and Morgan Smithies been charged only 4 times and 3 times?

Conspiracy? Witch hunt? A total anomaly? or are they just cleaner players?

They’ve obviously done better at cleaning up their game and learning lessons from the disciplinary I guess. Mickey Mac is nowhere near as bad as he used to be. I do think what stu says is right, if the disciplinary was like this back when Mickey was playing under wane, he’d probably be getting cited with Knowles’ frequency now, but I think he’s evolved a lot as a player since then. It’s also obviously a vicious cycle, people like knowles and Mata’autia are getting cited for more and being treated more severely than others for the same things because their reputation is counting against them (which is fair enough on the most part)

I don’t watch much of smithies so no clue on that front!

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:29 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

And just as an addendum, please quote where I said the Kade Ellis quarter final was "nothing in it" (sic). I've repeatedly said I was fine with both the sending off and subsequent ban.

I'm less ok with it when similar incidents have now become "head rutting" with no punishment whatsoever.

I'm even less ok when straw man arguments are used about what I did and didn't say.

The Shorrocks one, however, WAS nothing in it. It's been said by fans across the board, ex referees etc that it was an incorrect decision. It was, by far, a more inappropriate ban than the Lees one. It was accepted by Wigan. I'm confident you get the point I'm making here Stu?

Fair enough, you personally didn't say it but I meant Wigan fans in general.

And to be fair I think a Wigan fan accusing us of doing things not in the spirit of the game is a little hypocritical.

Remember the Stuart Fielden signing?

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:37 am  

Typical and frankly boring/idiotic circling of the wagons type approach on here. Some of our fans actually are happy clapping morons.

We all seem to agree that the judiciary is an embarrassment. Ellis missing this weekend is a big loss and it comes off the back of a howler of a decision by the MRP. If Wigan had appealed, I can guarantee all the happy clapper's would have rightly been behind the club on it. Sadly however they can't get out of their tribal mindset and support another club doing the same thing.

Things won't change, if people just keep laughing at other clubs misfortune in this area. I'd love to see a joint case brought by Saints and Wigan against the RFL. It's wrong, it's corrupt and it's making a mockery of the fans. Doesn't matter tho right, cause it's nice to see Saints lose a player.

When did Wigan fans become the geenyed weirdos that we all used to laugh at?

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:57 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Typical and frankly boring/idiotic circling of the wagons type approach on here. Some of our fans actually are happy clapping morons.

We all seem to agree that the judiciary is an embarrassment. Ellis missing this weekend is a big loss and it comes off the back of a howler of a decision by the MRP. If Wigan had appealed, I can guarantee all the happy clapper's would have rightly been behind the club on it. Sadly however they can't get out of their tribal mindset and support another club doing the same thing.

Things won't change, if people just keep laughing at other clubs misfortune in this area. I'd love to see a joint case brought by Saints and Wigan against the RFL. It's wrong, it's corrupt and it's making a mockery of the fans. Doesn't matter tho right, cause it's nice to see Saints lose a player.

When did Wigan fans become the geenyed weirdos that we all used to laugh at?

It’s not just Wigan fans, it’s just RL fans in general. So tribal and idiotic. It’s why I never care about the social media backlash we receive. Everybody hates the disciplinary when it goes against them, and when it does they always call for their own club to make the sort of statement that we have done, and call them out/take a stand. Just look at the Salford fans getting right behind Rowley after his comments too. Yet when we do it, it makes people really angry. It’s just laughable.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:07 am  

Stu M wrote:

Fair enough, you personally didn't say it but I meant Wigan fans in general.

And to be fair I think a Wigan fan accusing us of doing things not in the spirit of the game is a little hypocritical.

Remember the Stuart Fielden signing?

Again, you've misunderstood. The "spirit of the cap" is exactly the point I'm making. I said so in so many words! Are you actually reading my posts Stu, or skimming them and replying to what you think I'm saying?

When Wigan tried to use a loophole to get round the salary cap, the RFL came up with a made up charge, that didn't actually exist in the rules and charged them with that instead! The infamous "Spirit of the cap". However Saints are left to repeatedly work against the spirit of RLs operational rules whilst simultaneously claiming they're subject to harsher treatment than other clubs.

Even if they were only subject to the SAME standard as exercised against Wigan they'd be subject to a non existent, made up rule by the RFL. Instead they're left to repeatedly find loopholes in order to further an agenda of self interest.

Unless you think Lees shouldn't have received a ban for doing similar to what other players have been banned for, of course?