Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:02 am  

DaveO wrote:

You might think it is ridiculous but those are the rules and why would we want it paid in installments anyway and how much would they be? If he signed a four year deal and we got a huge fee that would along with this wages still be a wedge into the NRL clubs salary cap even if they paid in instalments. They don't pay the rest of their players peanuts and so will have far less room to maneuver than people think. Sure they can better any wage a UK club can offer but they can't do that and pay £750K or £1m for him as well. That is just the way it is.

The last time figures were reported in the press down under it was that Sam would be earning $1m (~£600k) a year with us getting $250k (~£150k). Whether this is believable and the Warriors can afford to have one player taking up $1.25m out a $6.3m salary cap I don't know, although dispensations for "marquee" players have been mentioned.

So given the nature of Sam's current deal and how it was lauded as keeping him here for three years at least and maybe for five it is entirely fair to have a go at IL because the only way he can leave two years into this deal is because the club have colluded by agreeing to a transfer enquiry from another club.

Sick of hearing this line to be honest re Sam. We all accepted we had a deal that would see him here for a certain amount of time but also accepted he'd probably leave at the end of it for the usual reasons of more money and because he'd want to test himself. Fair enough. This deal was lauded by the fans with IL getting pats on the back and it mitigated the disappointment to losing Joel to RU.

In fact I bet you were right up there telling us all what a genius IL was for securing this sort of deal.

It looked as though IL had at least protected the club from losing its best player at least for three years. Now that deal looks worthless IMO there is only one person to blame if true and that is IL. The idea he can do such a deal, then rip it up and it's all OK and IL is blameless because Sam wants to test himself is ludicrous.

Tbh I wasn't naive enough to take the details of this deal word-for-word which you seem to have done. We've seen players break contracts due to better offers elsewhere, homesick wives etc time and time again and just because the deal was 5 years and unable to talk to others for 3, there was never going to be anyway that would be completely watertight should the right offer come along, for player and club. As much as you like to think he can, IL can't just dig his heels in and keep players who don't want to stay. If the above figures are true then that would be denying Sam a year on double his current salary, plus it would probably alienate him against ever wanting to come back to Wigan again further down the line.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:35 am  

Look at it from ILs point of view. He gets the top earner shifted out 1 yr early thus reducing his costs. Smart move from a hard headed businessman?

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:58 am  

Salford after Wellens.....? viewtopic.php?f=20&t=552467&tsmp=1371470219 I do hope its true!

Salford after Wellens.....? viewtopic.php?f=20&t=552467&tsmp=1371470219 I do hope its true!

[DaveO]

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:05 pm  

WARRIORCRAIG wrote: The last time figures were reported in the press down under it was that Sam would be earning $1m (~£600k) a year with us getting $250k (~£150k). Whether this is believable and the Warriors can afford to have one player taking up $1.25m out a $6.3m salary cap I don't know, although dispensations for "marquee" players have been mentioned. The fee you mention is what I would expect whereas I get the impression some people think an extra zero will be added to end of it. Given Sam is contracted to us all IL has to do is stick a valuation on him of a £1m and that would IMO be the end of that. If he doesn't then it says to me he isn't interested in retaining his services. Tbh I wasn't naive enough to take the details of this deal word-for-word which you seem to have done. So what did you think he meant? Did you come on here and say it was a load of rubbish and not to be believed? We've seen players break contracts due to better offers elsewhere, homesick wives etc time and time again and just because the deal was 5 years and unable to talk to others for 3, there was never going to be anyway that would be completely watertight should the right offer come along, for player and club. As much as you like to think he can, IL can't just dig his heels in and keep players who don't want to stay. If the above figures are true then that would be denying Sam a year on double his current salary, plus it would probably alienate him against ever wanting to come back to Wigan again further down the line. We have not seen a contract like the one Sam has ever before. To equate this with players breaking contracts because they are home sick is wrong. To reiterate. It bars from from speaking to NRL clubs for three years. If he is speaking to NRL clubs its because IL has said he can. That is the issue not that he is just another player who wants out because he can earn better wages elsewhere. As to IL not being ale to dig his heals in that is complete nonsense. This is original press release for the new deal http://www.wiganwarriors.com/WContent.aspx?id=6588&type=news The idea this is spin from start to finish is also nonsense. As to being afraid of upsetting him in case he doesn't come back how on earth can you put any store in words like that when you are arguing an actual contract specifically designed to keep him here for at least three years is worthless? You can't have it both ways and suggest we let him go early because he will come back later if we do at the same time as arguing the contract that supposedly guarantees his services for a period is worth nothing. It's worth mentioning it goes without saying if these rumours are just that and IL and Sam stick to the deal then the pair of them deserve credit. If they don't then they don't deserve credit and I can't really understand your willingness to make excuses for them if that is the case.

WARRIORCRAIG wrote: The last time figures were reported in the press down under it was that Sam would be earning $1m (~£600k) a year with us getting $250k (~£150k). Whether this is believable and the Warriors can afford to have one player taking up $1.25m out a $6.3m salary cap I don't know, although dispensations for "marquee" players have been mentioned. The fee you mention is what I would expect whereas I get the impression some people think an extra zero will be added to end of it. Given Sam is contracted to us all IL has to do is stick a valuation on him of a £1m and that would IMO be the end of that. If he doesn't then it says to me he isn't interested in retaining his services. Tbh I wasn't naive enough to take the details of this deal word-for-word which you seem to have done. So what did you think he meant? Did you come on here and say it was a load of rubbish and not to be believed? We've seen players break contracts due to better offers elsewhere, homesick wives etc time and time again and just because the deal was 5 years and unable to talk to others for 3, there was never going to be anyway that would be completely watertight should the right offer come along, for player and club. As much as you like to think he can, IL can't just dig his heels in and keep players who don't want to stay. If the above figures are true then that would be denying Sam a year on double his current salary, plus it would probably alienate him against ever wanting to come back to Wigan again further down the line. We have not seen a contract like the one Sam has ever before. To equate this with players breaking contracts because they are home sick is wrong. To reiterate. It bars from from speaking to NRL clubs for three years. If he is speaking to NRL clubs its because IL has said he can. That is the issue not that he is just another player who wants out because he can earn better wages elsewhere. As to IL not being ale to dig his heals in that is complete nonsense. This is original press release for the new deal http://www.wiganwarriors.com/WContent.aspx?id=6588&type=news The idea this is spin from start to finish is also nonsense. As to being afraid of upsetting him in case he doesn't come back how on earth can you put any store in words like that when you are arguing an actual contract specifically designed to keep him here for at least three years is worthless? You can't have it both ways and suggest we let him go early because he will come back later if we do at the same time as arguing the contract that supposedly guarantees his services for a period is worth nothing. It's worth mentioning it goes without saying if these rumours are just that and IL and Sam stick to the deal then the pair of them deserve credit. If they don't then they don't deserve credit and I can't really understand your willingness to make excuses for them if that is the case.

[DaveO]

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:09 pm  

jinkin jimmy wrote:

Look at it from ILs point of view. He gets the top earner shifted out 1 yr early thus reducing his costs. Smart move from a hard headed businessman?

Depends on the effect it has on his business and if the cost is an issue. As an analogy didn't Golden Wonder sell their top selling product, Monster Munch, to Walkers which meant their revenues declined even further and they went bust pretty quick after that?

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:32 pm  

It maybe that IL wants Sam out of the club as perhaps the RFL/SL are to introduce the marquee player allowance whereby the best paid player is listed as the "Marquee" players and his salary doesn't count on the cap.
If that is to be brought in then is it any wonder IL wants rid of Sam this year.
Once the Marquee excusion is in force there's no way IL or anyone could justify Sam leaving the club.
We've heard how he takes up so much from the SC. If he isn't on the SC then none of all this that's going on now would apply.
Sam signed up to a deal that prevented him, or his agent, from talking to other clubs. At the time Sam was happy with those contract details. One would deduce then it must be Wigan RL that are making it known Sam is available.
No spin in the world would pacify Wigan fans if Sam wasn't included in the SC. The club has a high turnover, it's profitable and has a massive and successful squad. Sam maybe expensive, he's unquestionably worth it though.
Just wish he'd stay around for another couple of years though

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:06 pm  

I'd love to know what's really going on. I think most agree that If Sam does leave at the end of the year the disappointing thing I that it was agreed 2 years ago that he would serve 3 years and then explore his options with Wigan's blessing not jump ship as soon as a decent offer comes in. I'm sure there is more to it than we know. Maybe IL wants him off the cap as there are long term options available now that he needs the money for. Who knows. We'll probably have to wait for Sam's book to come out in 10 years to find out.

One of the most frustrating things about being a fan is you rarely get to find out the full details to form a reasoned opinion. I am sure IL has Wigan's best interests at heart and will make the right decision for the clubs long term future.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:20 pm  

The hopkins signing makes me think prescott wont be here next season...

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:31 pm  

The interest in Hopkins seemed to step up when Tuson announced he was leaving. I hope it's that rather then bad news about Prescotts injury. He was really making his mark in 2011 and since the end of that season things just haven't worked out for him.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:42 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

The interest in Hopkins seemed to step up when Tuson announced he was leaving. I hope it's that rather then bad news about Prescotts injury. He was really making his mark in 2011 and since the end of that season things just haven't worked out for him.

I was talking to Prescott the other day because he lives in my street. He was saying he is going seeing another specialist this week about his back because he really is struggling with it. He hasn't thrown the towel in just yet but he admitted its not looking too good at the minute.