Re: Covid : Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:13 pm  

The problem with threads like this, similar to Brexit, is they become toxic. I’ve a foot in either camp on this, I can see both sides and agree in part with both too.

Unfortunately this thread has devolved into “you’re a d*ckhead if you don’t have the vaccine” or “you’re a d*ckhead if you’ve had the vaccine”. Neither are d*ckheads. Like remainders/Brexiters weren’t. The only labelling of d*ckheads I’ll agree with is Tories and Tory voters. But that’s an even more toxic debate and inevitable argument.

For me this thread needs ending here. It’s doing no good for anyone. Leave this thread for The Sin Bin.

Re: Covid : Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:37 pm  

wow

pretty sure the government would rather be spending money on literally anything else than furlough and vaccinations at £15 a pop.

Any idea why life expectancy was 47 for a man a hundred years ago whereas it is 79 for a man now? (spoiler alert....it isn't because people in the 1900s hid away from diseases incl. common colds).

The stat 60% of covid hospitalisations being double jabbed, that has stuck in your head was an incorrect stat from a Downing press conference, later corrected, it was actually 60% of covid hospitalisations were unvaccinated - this was last July and as efficacy reduces with time, hence the need for a booster.

You also have seemed to mixed up Covid with the common cold and use the 2 interchangeably, the common cold is approximately 200+ different viruses loosely put under the umbrella for the common cold. We cant vaccinate against these for obvious reasons.

If unfortunately you do get covid and it affects you badly, i hope you have the good decency and the balls to stand up to the virus, saying 'enough is enough' and not to reply upon available drugs and hospital treatment......

With regards to Remain/Stay vaccine/anti-vax, could all be a Tory tactic to divide and conquer, not going particularly well at the moment as it seems to have divided the Tories to the point that the PM cannot govern for fear of losing the support of one or other faction..............

Re: Covid : Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:21 pm  

nathan_rugby wrote:

Which lockdowns failed and why?

- Too late into lockdown?
- Insufficient rules in lockdown?
- Rules not being followed by public?

Let's not limit this discussion to the UK, show me a lockdown that has prevented the resurgence of Covid.

The vaccines did grant us freedom until a new variant came about that started to evade the vaccines.

We were told last year that 15 million vaccinations would return our freedoms, we have now had over 120 million and these idiots are still talking about closing the economy down! Variants are always going to resurface, what do you think happens with flu or colds?

Hasn't the herd immunity theory been rubbished? How will that work?

You tell me. Together with vaccinations herd immunity has been the best tool for dealing with diseases on this planet. Herd immunity is the quickest and most successful way of overcoming this situation. Do you remember SARS? Well to all sense and purpose this is SARS-2. Herd immunity works by people catching Covid.

By focused protection do you mean just shield the elderly and the vulnerable and just let "the rest of us get on with it"?

More or less it is more important that those who are 65+ or have some underlying health problem receive their full quota of jabs. By the way, over 85% of the over 65s have now had their booster! It is these groups that have seen the vast majority of fatalities, younger people tend not to be affected by it or have symptoms like a cold so why have an obsession for jabbing the whole population when it is not required? To give schoolchildren (especially primary school age) vaccinations is unbelievable, they are going to do far more harm than good. Coronavirus is likely to mutate into flu and what do we do with flu? Give annual boosters. 50,000 to 60,000 people die with influenza or pneumonia each year but we do see the same heavy handedness from the government. The figures that are being banded about for coronavirus deaths are exaggerated because the disease may not be responsible for a person losing their life.

Sounds like you're arguing against vaccines and lockdowns without suggesting any plausible alternatives.

I am not arguing against vaccinations, I am saying they should be targeted at certain parts of the poulation. And, as for not suggesting an alternative I suggested herd immunity and focused protection.

Now, please explain the following to me:

1. What are the benefits of lockdown and how will such an action defeat this virus? If the whole of the UK population had all been confined to their homes from day one, for six months, would it have gone away?
2. Why the obsession with vaccinating everyone in the country and what will it achieve? Do you think variants that appear in other countries will not travel over the ocean? Do you believe that it will have an adverse effect on certain groups of people?
3. Is it necessary to jab every single person in the world (at least three times) to eradicate this disease? And, if so, do you actually think that it is achievable?
4. Why do you believe Sage, et al, when it is clear that many of their predictions have been way off the mark? Why not take a balanced view and look at what other scientists are saying and if their predictions better reflect the actual situation?
5. How many people have been hospitalised or died with Omicron in the UK to date (I asked you this previously but so far you have declined to answer)?
6. Finally, in one of your earlier posts you referred to conspiracy theories, which ones?

Re: Covid : Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:51 pm  

Anti vaxxers are just attention seeking bellends who listen to discredited doctors on you tube who are also seeking attention

Re: Covid : Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:39 am  

Sweaty Betty's wrote:

I am not arguing against vaccinations, I am saying they should be targeted at certain parts of the poulation. And, as for not suggesting an alternative I suggested herd immunity and focused protection.

Now, please explain the following to me:

1. What are the benefits of lockdown and how will such an action defeat this virus? If the whole of the UK population had all been confined to their homes from day one, for six months, would it have gone away?
2. Why the obsession with vaccinating everyone in the country and what will it achieve? Do you think variants that appear in other countries will not travel over the ocean? Do you believe that it will have an adverse effect on certain groups of people?
3. Is it necessary to jab every single person in the world (at least three times) to eradicate this disease? And, if so, do you actually think that it is achievable?
4. Why do you believe Sage, et al, when it is clear that many of their predictions have been way off the mark? Why not take a balanced view and look at what other scientists are saying and if their predictions better reflect the actual situation?
5. How many people have been hospitalised or died with Omicron in the UK to date (I asked you this previously but so far you have declined to answer)?
6. Finally, in one of your earlier posts you referred to conspiracy theories, which ones?

1 its to stop the nhs being overwhelmed.
2 it speeds up the process to herd immunity
3 herd immunity needs 70 to 90% vaccinated to be effective.
4 sage supply data asked for by the government.
5 14 as of this morning
6 its government trying to control us,it big pharma to make millions its big tech to make millons, its a way to trace us, ect.. ect ect.

Re: Covid : Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:40 am  

roo67 wrote:

1 its to stop the nhs being overwhelmed.
2 it speeds up the process to herd immunity
3 herd immunity needs 70 to 90% vaccinated to be effective.
4 sage supply data asked for by the government.
5 14 as of this morning
6 its government trying to control us,it big pharma to make millions its big tech to make millons, its a way to trace us, ect.. ect ect.

Thanks for your answers but they were posted for Natahan.

1. The NHS is overwhelmed every year it needs managing properly.
2. Well over 90% of the adult population has been vaccinated so why have we not achieved herd community?
3. See 2.
4. Well they shouldn't be because the data gives an incorrect position and it has always been wide of the mark, Google Professor Ferguson to see his stupid predictions.
5. Massive in the scope of things.
6. Do you believe in those conspiracy theories or is believing in Father Christmas more realistic.

So, based on your answers lockdowns and restrictions are not necessary?

I think Wales have got it right. No sport, no work just take a trip to the pub

Re: Covid : Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:41 am  

roo67 wrote:

1 its to stop the nhs being overwhelmed.
2 it speeds up the process to herd immunity
3 herd immunity needs 70 to 90% vaccinated to be effective.
4 sage supply data asked for by the government.
5 14 as of this morning
6 its government trying to control us,it big pharma to make millions its big tech to make millons, its a way to trace us, ect.. ect ect.

To add to No5 - Yes there are people/outlets who got some numbers wrong recently in the media/government etc. and 90% of people going into Hospital are not Unvaccinated - The figure is more like 35% - However the %/No per 100,000 of unvaccinated being hospitalised is something like 5 x times the rate of vaccinated people i.e. and I'm just throwing No's here so don't pick holes in them!
If there are 50 million vaccinated There may be 2000 a day being admitted
If there are 5 million not vaccinated there may be 700 a day being admitted

If 55 million hadn't been vaccinated there would be nearly 8000 a day being admitted and so on the number further down the chain in ICU & then Deaths would increase.

However - The number of people going into ICU I believe is more like 87% unvaccinated.

What I will predict is that people will use the methods/reasoning in the answers you provided in Answer no6 and twist & manipulate more numbers and figures to try & suit their Anti Vax, Anti Government (I hate them BTW, but that should not alter how we view the scientific evidence & Data), Anti MSM (This one really makes me laugh!!!) blah blah blah agenda.

What will happen is people who want the answer to be different will use Whataboutery and it's impossible to keep up with it. because to ask 100 stupid questions takes 10minutes - To provide 1 accurate Fact may take Hours!!!

If anyone is undecided please don't look at anything I or anyone else on here has written, go look at REPUTABLE SCIENTIFIC outlets etc. to make your mind up. But be careful, there are always the Andrew Wakefields of this world out there.

Re: Covid : Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:43 pm  

What’s covid on your aunts death certificate got to do with you having the vaccine, or not?

Condolences for the two losses you’ve suffered.
I understand the link you’ve made with your grandad but for the life of me I can’t fathom why the aunt thing means you shouldn’t have a vaccine and therefore I can’t do feck all in my day to day life, now?

Re: Covid : Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:12 pm  

its been the same for over 100 years in this country, if you've died during a pandemic ONE of the causes of deaths goes down as that, on the certificate there can be more than one

Re: Covid : Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:28 am  

Azul wrote:

What’s covid on your aunts death certificate got to do with you having the vaccine, or not?

Condolences for the two losses you’ve suffered.
I understand the link you’ve made with your grandad but for the life of me I can’t fathom why the aunt thing means you shouldn’t have a vaccine and therefore I can’t do feck all in my day to day life, now?

Exactly.

Don’t think that Pie_Eyter really knows what he’s saying or the reasoning. Makes no sense at all.