Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:13 pm  

From a reliable source I was told today that Tomkins camp have agreed a deal in principle with NZW and a few Union/NRL clubs are sniffing around Charnley.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:57 pm  

GazDunn wrote:

From a reliable source I was told today that Tomkins camp have agreed a deal in principle with NZW and a few Union/NRL clubs are sniffing around Charnley.

You cant really dispute these rumours, it seems to be open season on predators surrounding Wigan, especially with the lack of comment from the Wigan club.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:52 pm  

stillinthepast wrote:

You cant really dispute these rumours, it seems to be open season on predators surrounding Wigan, especially with the lack of comment from the Wigan club.

We have set the precedent with the sales of Joel Tomkins, Lee Mossop and Gareth Hock – you are spot on with what you say.

On a club level, I accept that the NRL/RU have more money than we do and have the finances/resources to offer a very attractive lifestyle to some of our best players. I accept that, on a club level (wider issues with the game I take with the RFL). What I can't accept and will not accept is this surrendering so willingly – I can't emphasise enough how we are so quick to bendover and have our best players poached – Shaun Wane has openly commented in the press many times regarding Sam's future and him leaving, we will have to cope etc. Ian Lenagan too after losing Mossop/Hock to the NRL says that he predicts more will leave. Now some will say they are just being pragmatic, but they're admitting defeat and in doing so are encouraging more exits. If you sign a contract with Wigan for five years and want to leave after three you know you can do this - easily, almost encouraged in some instances. Why?

Sam signed a contract where he could not talk to an NRL/Rugby Union club for three years. After two years he signs for an NRL club. Either he has breached his contract or Wigan have cashed in on him. How has this been allowed to happen? What advantage do we have in cashing in on Sam Tomkins now? There doesn't exist a like-for-like replacement and we can't afford to spend the cash we receive on a player of his caliber because of salary cap restrictions. We are not in any debt. Why sell him now? We wouldn't be keeping him here against his will because he agreed to those terms in his contract. Does Sam look like a player that wants to leave Wigan? Does he look unhappy here? He's a player who comes around once every twenty years. One of the best players to ever pull on the shirt. It's not rocket science, you keep him here as long as possible. One more year – that should have been the minimum. However the precedent was set when we let his brother go a year after signing a five year deal and agreed to let Mossop/Hock go.

Look at Gary Hetherington. People on this board slate him (why I still can't fathom – look at the turnaround Leeds made under him) yet I admire his approach to NRL poaching. NRL clubs were swarming around Watkins, but the man has put his foot down and said no, the lad will serve his contract at Leeds. And THAT is the key factor there. I accept players will leave for NRL clubs – possibly Union clubs, but they should only be allowed to do so once they have completed the contracts they have signed. Otherwise what is the point of signing a contract in the first place? If Lee Mossop served his contract at Wigan and then left to the NRL – fair play. If Sam Tomkins as a bare minimum served his three years at Wigan before speaking to NRL/Union clubs – fair play. Because let's face it, we want to win trophies. We stand a better chance of winning trophies with these players at the club. Cashing in on them is useless in a salary cap restricted sport. You do not enter sport to make money. You enter sport to win trophies. Look at Koukash - is he plowing all this money into Salford to make a profit or win a trophy? Look wider in sport, Abramovich at Chelsea, Sheik Mansour at City, even Dave Whelan at Latics. Do you think he bought Latics to turn a profit or to see them win an FA Cup? Why cash in on them? Make players see out their contracts at Wigan and achieve success. I know the obvious responses are holding players against their will is not the way and all that BS and it is BS. I repeat, does Sam Tomkins look unhappy to you at Wigan? Did Joel Tomkins? Does Lee Mossop? Gaz Hock is the only exception. The other response is we might as well cash in on them now rather than letting them go for free, but I hope I've made the point loud and clear that in a salary cap restricted sport at a club that is healthy in terms of finance there are no benefits. Success is everything. What would we sooner see, a healthy balance sheet or a full trophy cabinet? We almost went bust becoming the most successful club in Rugby League, but would anyone see us go back in time, run a healthy balance sheet and not achieve the success we did? 8 cups in a row? 27-0 Saints? Beating Manly? Going to Brisbane and becoming World Champs?

Apologies for the long rant there. I was going to wait till it's all official and Wigan announce Tomkins leaving to let this out, but I can't help it. I'm gutted we're losing him full stop, but even more so that we're letting him go earlier when we could have kept him! He's the best player we've had since Hanley!

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:58 am  

Salford definitely missed out on Dobson now signed with the Knights for 2014, Which in turn increases the void left at Craven Park Paea, Paterson and now Dobson ouch! Interesting to see the replacements for those three. KR leaking their best talent season after season this year those three last year Green, Taylor, Webster.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:37 am  

Father Ted wrote:

Shaun Wane to be replaced by Tim Sheens!
If Shaun does go good luck to him, personally I think he'll stay.
As for Tim Sheens, someone is pulling someone's leg I think.
Wests are a wreck after his departure.
IL won't go for him, no chance!

Seems dodgy to me that's why I wasn't sure about the emoticon!

Also, would he give up coaching the national side to come? Doesn't seem likely at the minute (unless he intends to jack it in after the World Cup).

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:46 am  

cadoo wrote:

We have set the precedent with the sales of Joel Tomkins, Lee Mossop and Gareth Hock – you are spot on with what you say.

On a club level, I accept that the NRL/RU have more money than we do and have the finances/resources to offer a very attractive lifestyle to some of our best players. I accept that, on a club level (wider issues with the game I take with the RFL). What I can't accept and will not accept is this surrendering so willingly – I can't emphasise enough how we are so quick to bendover and have our best players poached – Shaun Wane has openly commented in the press many times regarding Sam's future and him leaving, we will have to cope etc. Ian Lenagan too after losing Mossop/Hock to the NRL says that he predicts more will leave. Now some will say they are just being pragmatic, but they're admitting defeat and in doing so are encouraging more exits. If you sign a contract with Wigan for five years and want to leave after three you know you can do this - easily, almost encouraged in some instances. Why?

Sam signed a contract where he could not talk to an NRL/Rugby Union club for three years. After two years he signs for an NRL club. Either he has breached his contract or Wigan have cashed in on him. How has this been allowed to happen? What advantage do we have in cashing in on Sam Tomkins now? There doesn't exist a like-for-like replacement and we can't afford to spend the cash we receive on a player of his caliber because of salary cap restrictions. We are not in any debt. Why sell him now? We wouldn't be keeping him here against his will because he agreed to those terms in his contract. Does Sam look like a player that wants to leave Wigan? Does he look unhappy here? He's a player who comes around once every twenty years. One of the best players to ever pull on the shirt. It's not rocket science, you keep him here as long as possible. One more year – that should have been the minimum. However the precedent was set when we let his brother go a year after signing a five year deal and agreed to let Mossop/Hock go.

Look at Gary Hetherington. People on this board slate him (why I still can't fathom – look at the turnaround Leeds made under him) yet I admire his approach to NRL poaching. NRL clubs were swarming around Watkins, but the man has put his foot down and said no, the lad will serve his contract at Leeds. And THAT is the key factor there. I accept players will leave for NRL clubs – possibly Union clubs, but they should only be allowed to do so once they have completed the contracts they have signed. Otherwise what is the point of signing a contract in the first place? If Lee Mossop served his contract at Wigan and then left to the NRL – fair play. If Sam Tomkins as a bare minimum served his three years at Wigan before speaking to NRL/Union clubs – fair play. Because let's face it, we want to win trophies. We stand a better chance of winning trophies with these players at the club. Cashing in on them is useless in a salary cap restricted sport. You do not enter sport to make money. You enter sport to win trophies. Look at Koukash - is he plowing all this money into Salford to make a profit or win a trophy? Look wider in sport, Abramovich at Chelsea, Sheik Mansour at City, even Dave Whelan at Latics. Do you think he bought Latics to turn a profit or to see them win an FA Cup? Why cash in on them? Make players see out their contracts at Wigan and achieve success. I know the obvious responses are holding players against their will is not the way and all that BS and it is BS. I repeat, does Sam Tomkins look unhappy to you at Wigan? Did Joel Tomkins? Does Lee Mossop? Gaz Hock is the only exception. The other response is we might as well cash in on them now rather than letting them go for free, but I hope I've made the point loud and clear that in a salary cap restricted sport at a club that is healthy in terms of finance there are no benefits. Success is everything. What would we sooner see, a healthy balance sheet or a full trophy cabinet? We almost went bust becoming the most successful club in Rugby League, but would anyone see us go back in time, run a healthy balance sheet and not achieve the success we did? 8 cups in a row? 27-0 Saints? Beating Manly? Going to Brisbane and becoming World Champs?

Apologies for the long rant there. I was going to wait till it's all official and Wigan announce Tomkins leaving to let this out, but I can't help it. I'm gutted we're losing him full stop, but even more so that we're letting him go earlier when we could have kept him! He's the best player we've had since Hanley!

Excellent post. I think it fair to point out that IL did spend some or all of the Joel money on transfer fees for Smith and Green but you have IMO captured the scenario very well. If anyone with an opposing view wishes to post in such a detailed manner I would love to read it!

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:53 am  

Mickey Paea has signed for Hull FC, disappointed to miss out on him but I'm guessing Mickey would prefer to stay in Hull. Hull FC are consistently building a strong team with good youth players and signings.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:15 am  

The only person who knows how Sam Tomkins is feeling is Sam Tomkins. You're not telling me this has come as some kind of shock. We knew he was going to leave sooner rather than later. Actually he hasn't even gone yet. We don't know what deal is in place for him and how we may or may not benefit.
If he wants to go and play in the NRL, then who are we to stand in his way? As long as we get a transfer fee that we can reinvest over time and we keep bringing through the young players, then that's fine with me. The player drain is inevitable with the state of our competition...
Every game should be like us V Warrington from Monday. There's so much mediocrity in this league it's unbelievable, and that, together with the lack of money and leadership from the impotent RFL is driving players away.
I'd like to think that our best players going to the NRL, becoming better players and then playing for England or GB, will turn the international teams into contenders when we play the Aussies. Only when we start beating them regularly (hopefully we start by winning this year's World Cup) will people start to take the sport seriously (any fans who don't think we need a strong international comp are deluded).
Raising the salary cap? Well, this could just pave the way for more Aussies in the twilight of their careers, taking the places of the Linehams & Crooks of this world. I don't think i've ever seen so many talented young players in the league but they need to be coached by the best and in a competitive competition and, unfortunately, that isn't Super League...

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:26 am  

jinkin jimmy wrote:

Excellent post. I think it fair to point out that IL did spend some or all of the Joel money on transfer fees for Smith and Green but you have IMO captured the scenario very well. If anyone with an opposing view wishes to post in such a detailed manner I would love to read it!

I would have a go but not got a spare 2 days to do it!

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:00 am  

Interesting that Radders is recruiting down under. Got a feeling IL is lining up a Barrett-esque super signing to replace Tomkins, that's why he's holding back from announcing anything. Interesting couple of months ahead!