Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Oct 17, 2023 4:05 pm  

Zig wrote:

You need to factor in that the core players such as Makinson, Lomax, Percival, Walmsley are on the wane. The rest of the squad will need to improve in order to offset their dip in standards. To be fair they have all set the bar high but age and injuries are not going to be their friends.

Agreed, we are coming to the end of this era of players over the next couple of years and we will need to manage that transition really carefully. Those 4 players are all still producing quality performances though and especially in the case of Makinson and Lomax they're still highly dependable in terms of how many games they play. (Lomax was an ever present with 33 and Makinson 27). Obviously Walmsley has had issues over the last 2 years but has still played 23 games a year on average and Percival played 23 this year too.SO whilst I agree they're all approaching their final years; they've not dropped a cliff just yet.

Having said that I'm not naive to think this can go on forever. I believe we have some highly rated lads who are maybe a year or 2 off so we may get lucky and they fall into place. I believe Dagnall, Vaughan, Robertson and Stephens are best placed to replace those 4 positionally plus one or two others as well. There's another half back I can't remember the name of. But again, it would be naive to think it will be that straightforward and we may need some short term signings to bridge the gap (see Daryl Clark for example).

Rugby League and sport in general has always been about cycles and we've just had a magnificent one that has come to an end this year. We will no longer be favourites in 2024 which will be the first time for 5 years we haven't been; but I'm confident we won't fade away into an "also ran" like we have seen with Leeds and Warrington at times. We'll be there or thereabouts for the foreseeable I'm sure.

Wigan now appear to have the strongest squad on paper going in to next year but this notion that Saints are a team of old men on their way out is wishful thinking. (That isn't aimed at you by the way).

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Oct 17, 2023 4:11 pm  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

Agreed, we are coming to the end of this era of players over the next couple of years and we will need to manage that transition really carefully. Those 4 players are all still producing quality performances though and especially in the case of Makinson and Lomax they're still highly dependable in terms of how many games they play. (Lomax was an ever present with 33 and Makinson 27). Obviously Walmsley has had issues over the last 2 years but has still played 23 games a year on average and Percival played 23 this year too.SO whilst I agree they're all approaching their final years; they've not dropped a cliff just yet.

Having said that I'm not naive to think this can go on forever. I believe we have some highly rated lads who are maybe a year or 2 off so we may get lucky and they fall into place. I believe Dagnall, Vaughan, Robertson and Stephens are best placed to replace those 4 positionally plus one or two others as well. There's another half back I can't remember the name of. But again, it would be naive to think it will be that straightforward and we may need some short term signings to bridge the gap (see Daryl Clark for example).

Rugby League and sport in general has always been about cycles and we've just had a magnificent one that has come to an end this year. We will no longer be favourites in 2024 which will be the first time for 5 years we haven't been; but I'm confident we won't fade away into an "also ran" like we have seen with Leeds and Warrington at times. We'll be there or thereabouts for the foreseeable I'm sure.

Wigan now appear to have the strongest squad on paper going in to next year but this notion that Saints are a team of old men on their way out is wishful thinking. (That isn't aimed at you by the way).

Whitby is the half mate. Very good player and tough as old boots. Was doing great on dual reg too playing against men then suffered a knee injury

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Oct 17, 2023 5:15 pm  

Saddened is now begging Jackson Hastings on twitter for Saints rumours hahahah

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Oct 17, 2023 5:20 pm  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

Agreed, we are coming to the end of this era of players over the next couple of years and we will need to manage that transition really carefully. Those 4 players are all still producing quality performances though and especially in the case of Makinson and Lomax they're still highly dependable in terms of how many games they play. (Lomax was an ever present with 33 and Makinson 27). Obviously Walmsley has had issues over the last 2 years but has still played 23 games a year on average and Percival played 23 this year too.SO whilst I agree they're all approaching their final years; they've not dropped a cliff just yet.

Having said that I'm not naive to think this can go on forever. I believe we have some highly rated lads who are maybe a year or 2 off so we may get lucky and they fall into place. I believe Dagnall, Vaughan, Robertson and Stephens are best placed to replace those 4 positionally plus one or two others as well. There's another half back I can't remember the name of. But again, it would be naive to think it will be that straightforward and we may need some short term signings to bridge the gap (see Daryl Clark for example).

Rugby League and sport in general has always been about cycles and we've just had a magnificent one that has come to an end this year. We will no longer be favourites in 2024 which will be the first time for 5 years we haven't been; but I'm confident we won't fade away into an "also ran" like we have seen with Leeds and Warrington at times. We'll be there or thereabouts for the foreseeable I'm sure.

Wigan now appear to have the strongest squad on paper going in to next year but this notion that Saints are a team of old men on their way out is wishful thinking. (That isn't aimed at you by the way).

I agree you do have some lads coming through the system, whether they make it or not we will have to see. Trying to fill the gaps left by the four players previously named is a different matter altogether, it’s a massive challenge and the Saints faithful may need to be patient.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Oct 17, 2023 6:01 pm  

NSW wrote:

Saddened is now begging Jackson Hastings on twitter for Saints rumours hahahah

I think Saddened may be Mike Rush in disguise. Only joking Mike if you listened to him you would be playing in League 1.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Oct 17, 2023 6:39 pm  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

Agreed, we are coming to the end of this era of players over the next couple of years and we will need to manage that transition really carefully. Those 4 players are all still producing quality performances though and especially in the case of Makinson and Lomax they're still highly dependable in terms of how many games they play. (Lomax was an ever present with 33 and Makinson 27). Obviously Walmsley has had issues over the last 2 years but has still played 23 games a year on average and Percival played 23 this year too.SO whilst I agree they're all approaching their final years; they've not dropped a cliff just yet.

Having said that I'm not naive to think this can go on forever. I believe we have some highly rated lads who are maybe a year or 2 off so we may get lucky and they fall into place. I believe Dagnall, Vaughan, Robertson and Stephens are best placed to replace those 4 positionally plus one or two others as well. There's another half back I can't remember the name of. But again, it would be naive to think it will be that straightforward and we may need some short term signings to bridge the gap (see Daryl Clark for example).

Rugby League and sport in general has always been about cycles and we've just had a magnificent one that has come to an end this year. We will no longer be favourites in 2024 which will be the first time for 5 years we haven't been; but I'm confident we won't fade away into an "also ran" like we have seen with Leeds and Warrington at times. We'll be there or thereabouts for the foreseeable I'm sure.

Wigan now appear to have the strongest squad on paper going in to next year but this notion that Saints are a team of old men on their way out is wishful thinking. (That isn't aimed at you by the way).

I’d be very surprised if it isn’t Wigan and Saints battling it out at the top again next year. I can’t see Catalans having a season like this again, minus some really influential players and nobody jumps out a mile in terms of making a stonewall prediction that a team will finish in that top 2. If somebody held a gun to my head, I’d probably go with HKR or Wire to run Wigan/Saints the closest.

I don’t think any Wiganer would write Saints off in the slightest. Yes, people are having some fun but it’s been a long 4 years. Wigan are there to be shot at now and have that WCC disruption to deal with, just as Saints did this year. We’ve got plenty of new players to bed in and you never know how that will go. I’m sick of hearing people outside of the club and outside of the Wigan fanbase talking up some sort of new dynasty incoming. It ain’t that easy and the mentality to go again is not one all teams have, so we’ll have plenty to prove.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:02 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I’d be very surprised if it isn’t Wigan and Saints battling it out at the top again next year. I can’t see Catalans having a season like this again, minus some really influential players and nobody jumps out a mile in terms of making a stonewall prediction that a team will finish in that top 2. If somebody held a gun to my head, I’d probably go with HKR or Wire to run Wigan/Saints the closest.

I don’t think any Wiganer would write Saints off in the slightest. Yes, people are having some fun but it’s been a long 4 years. Wigan are there to be shot at now and have that WCC disruption to deal with, just as Saints did this year. We’ve got plenty of new players to bed in and you never know how that will go. I’m sick of hearing people outside of the club and outside of the Wigan fanbase talking up some sort of new dynasty incoming. It ain’t that easy and the mentality to go again is not one all teams have, so we’ll have plenty to prove.

We need both teams to be competitive otherwise SL could take a downturn. Much will, yet again, depend on injuries (given the relative small squads SL teams have) and who copes best. I don’t see Saints fading away and it would be folly to assume they will/might. I, like you NK, cannot see who the main protagonists will be.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:18 pm  

Smithies leaving has now given me more optimism for next season. He’s been outstanding this season, cut out the grubbiness and concentrated on his game.

With him, KPP and King going I’m not so sure their replacements are stronger.

King > Keighran
KPP > Walters

Now granted 2019 Thompson is an upgrade on Smithies but NRL Thompson isn’t so it’s still a risk.

I’d also be worried about Havard and his hamstring issues. I know he’s not all about pace but sometimes players just can’t shake them off. Michael Owen in football being a prime example. For England’s sake I hope he comes back fully fit and not susceptible to continually pull his hamstring.

There’s no doubt Wigan will start favourites and will be the team to beat but Smithies leaving has just brought them back to the pack a bit.

The WCC will be a huge distraction too regardless of where it’s played. Back in 2017 they never even made the play offs after beating Cronulla. Clearly that’s not going to happen this time but it’s a distraction nevertheless.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:31 pm  

Stu M wrote:

Smithies leaving has now given me more optimism for next season. He’s been outstanding this season, cut out the grubbiness and concentrated on his game.

With him, KPP and King going I’m not so sure their replacements are stronger.

King > Keighran
KPP > Walters

Now granted 2019 Thompson is an upgrade on Smithies but NRL Thompson isn’t so it’s still a risk.

I’d also be worried about Havard and his hamstring issues. I know he’s not all about pace but sometimes players just can’t shake them off. Michael Owen in football being a prime example. For England’s sake I hope he comes back fully fit and not susceptible to continually pull his hamstring.

There’s no doubt Wigan will start favourites and will be the team to beat but Smithies leaving has just brought them back to the pack a bit.

The WCC will be a huge distraction too regardless of where it’s played. Back in 2017 they never even made the play offs after beating Cronulla. Clearly that’s not going to happen this time but it’s a distraction nevertheless.

I agree with all that bar this myth that Smithies has only just sorted his discipline out (heard a few people say it now as though it’s recent, not just you). He gave away less penalties in 2022, than he did in 2023 and received no yellow or red cards in 2022, compared to a single yellow in 2023. His discipline was fine this year, absolutely outstanding in 2022 and a bit over egged before that. He loves being in a battle and giving and taking verbals and it rubs opposition fans and players up the wrong way and has lead to him being thrown in with loons like James Bentley, when that’s simply not the case.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:48 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I agree with all that bar this myth that Smithies has only just sorted his discipline out (heard a few people say it now as though it’s recent, not just you). He gave away less penalties in 2022, than he did in 2023 and received no yellow or red cards in 2022, compared to a single yellow in 2023. His discipline was fine this year, absolutely outstanding in 2022 and a bit over egged before that. He loves being in a battle and giving and taking verbals and it rubs opposition fans and players up the wrong way and has lead to him being thrown in with loons like James Bentley, when that’s simply not the case.

When you live in an echo chamber of Bile what do you expect