Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:52 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I think those match ups highlight how a neutral would probably give a different opinion to a Wigan or Saints fan. Ask a Wigan fan about those and I think loads would pick all of ours bar Isa but I think more neutrals would pick Knowles over Ellis, Clark over Leeming, Percival over Keighran etc.

It’s all make believe but if I wrote down a combined team, I think I’d have around 6 to 8 Saints players in it. What I would say is I think Saints have a far bigger drop off in quality terms from their best 10-12 players to the rest of the team than we do. Guys like Bennison, Hurrell, Blake, Mbye etc are pretty poor players. I don’t think we have too many of those (if any).

I think that's the point. I still don't think there's much between our starting XIIIs on paper, all things being equal with fitness and form. You can definitely argue that a good number of their players get in our team, and they have every chance of beating us on Good Friday.

But where our depth is outstanding, theirs doesn't look anything like strong enough to manage through the full season without a massive slice of luck on the injury front.

Put another way, yesterday we put 60 past a team away from home in the league missing nine players who are give or take certainties to get into our first seventeen. Yes it was London and I'm not saying that Saints need to be able to have that amount of depth, but I'd say they're only ever three or four injuries away from a really substantial drop off in quality.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:43 pm  

Winning at Saints is never easy, it wasn’t in the 80’s and 90’s and it won’t be in 2024.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Mon Mar 11, 2024 1:22 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Oh plenty of Saints players would get into our 17. It's a testament to the strength of both teams. Personally, I'd love to see a second row like Sironen at Wigan. Hopefully, Walters might end up being that guy for us. We've not had a big second row since Joel left.

In regards to Good Friday, am I right in saying Peet has never won away at Langtree (or whatever they call it)? I know we got beat there last year and lost on GF in 22.

Both Walters and Nsembe dwarf Joel. Junior is 6’5” and 17st 5lbs and Walters is bigger. Happy days

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Mon Mar 11, 2024 1:27 am  

apollosghost wrote:

Just seen how Cust failed his hia, reckon Knowles might be sat down again, looked a far worse incident than the Percival red card

That was a good spot mate.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:08 am  

in regards to who would you choose from each side, sometimes you have to admit that players are different / have a different skillset and perhaps fit or dont fit a style of play

Roby is undoubtedly one of the best hookers (if not the best) of the SL era. However, at the point we had McIllorum i wouldnt have swopped them but that is more because they are different players and both suited the styles of Saints and Wigan respectively at that point in time. Roby was very much about getting Saints on the front foot with ball in hand, off the back of Graham / Walmsley etc getting a quick play of the ball, however, McIllorum was our defensive lead, taking the game to the opposition physicall and aggressively in defence. So 2 very different players, but one that both Wigan and Saints fans would argue they wouldnt swop

onto current teams and i like Isa as an example, but you would look at Sironen, Batchelor and Whitely and could argue that all 3 are better players, and you'd be kidding yourself if you chose to say that they werent. However, again Isa fits our current 2nd row model of grafting for 80mins with nowt flashy. There's no coincidence he's still here despite what Wigan or other clubs fans think about him

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:42 am  

Mark_P1973 wrote:

in regards to who would you choose from each side, sometimes you have to admit that players are different / have a different skillset and perhaps fit or dont fit a style of play

Roby is undoubtedly one of the best hookers (if not the best) of the SL era. However, at the point we had McIllorum i wouldnt have swopped them but that is more because they are different players and both suited the styles of Saints and Wigan respectively at that point in time. Roby was very much about getting Saints on the front foot with ball in hand, off the back of Graham / Walmsley etc getting a quick play of the ball, however, McIllorum was our defensive lead, taking the game to the opposition physicall and aggressively in defence. So 2 very different players, but one that both Wigan and Saints fans would argue they wouldnt swop

onto current teams and i like Isa as an example, but you would look at Sironen, Batchelor and Whitely and could argue that all 3 are better players, and you'd be kidding yourself if you chose to say that they werent. However, again Isa fits our current 2nd row model of grafting for 80mins with nowt flashy. There's no coincidence he's still here despite what Wigan or other clubs fans think about him

Isa has been an amazing signing for Wigan and he has been so valuable to us over the years. I still think he is but it's probably more now in a role of leading the culture and setting standards away from the field. I think as the season goes on he may well be on the outer, with Walters and Nsemba being two physical freaks, who I think we'll have to find places in the 17. Whatever happens though you know Isa will just keep working hard and helping the squad and he's probably been getting written out of peoples first choice teams since day one, yet he's rarely been anything other than a first 17 player. It's a testament to his fitness, injury record and determination.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Mon Mar 11, 2024 10:24 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

Isa has been an amazing signing for Wigan and he has been so valuable to us over the years. I still think he is but it's probably more now in a role of leading the culture and setting standards away from the field. I think as the season goes on he may well be on the outer, with Walters and Nsemba being two physical freaks, who I think we'll have to find places in the 17. Whatever happens though you know Isa will just keep working hard and helping the squad and he's probably been getting written out of peoples first choice teams since day one, yet he's rarely been anything other than a first 17 player. It's a testament to his fitness, injury record and determination.

He has, and not many of us would have thought he'd still be in the starting 17. It seems that many fans, including Wiganers havent or didnt really rate him, but as i alluded to there's no coincidence that he is still at Wigan and in the starting 17 week in, week out.

it will be interesting to see if / how he is phased out from the starting 17 if Nsemba and Walters are both fully fit. The competition will be good from a Wigan perspective and hopefully drive the 2 young ones on to deliver what we all feel they can do. Attack wise i think they will both add a different dimension to Isa, but equally the defensive prowess of Isa cannot be under-estimated and its evident how different our defence is when he is playing

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Mon Mar 11, 2024 10:26 am  

Mark_P1973 wrote:

in regards to who would you choose from each side, sometimes you have to admit that players are different / have a different skillset and perhaps fit or dont fit a style of play

Roby is undoubtedly one of the best hookers (if not the best) of the SL era. However, at the point we had McIllorum i wouldnt have swopped them but that is more because they are different players and both suited the styles of Saints and Wigan respectively at that point in time. Roby was very much about getting Saints on the front foot with ball in hand, off the back of Graham / Walmsley etc getting a quick play of the ball, however, McIllorum was our defensive lead, taking the game to the opposition physicall and aggressively in defence. So 2 very different players, but one that both Wigan and Saints fans would argue they wouldnt swop

onto current teams and i like Isa as an example, but you would look at Sironen, Batchelor and Whitely and could argue that all 3 are better players, and you'd be kidding yourself if you chose to say that they werent. However, again Isa fits our current 2nd row model of grafting for 80mins with nowt flashy. There's no coincidence he's still here despite what Wigan or other clubs fans think about him

Isa has been brilliant for Wigan,but you can't put him against Sironen,Batchelor and Whitely and say they are better but what you could say is are they better than Isa,Nsemba and Walters which I would say no combined as a unit I think I would still have ours.The Saints players are very good though who have reached their potential as Nsemba and Walters havn't yet.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Mon Mar 11, 2024 10:48 am  

Spot on Mark, and that's what I was alluding to. O'Neil/Clark would be a similar comparison. Saints need Clark's speed around the ruck as they don't have it elsewhere whereas we have pace to burn so O'Neil setting the defensive intensity is a more valuable commodity for us. Its horses for courses and why I kept saying 'better for Wigan' when discussing this.

The combined team approach just doesn't answer the question that was being raised; "would we currently take any Saints players for Wigan" It was never a "who's the better player" discussion (unless I misunderstood the OP).

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:16 am  

If Isa retires at the end of 2024 I hope Wigan find him a position as head of development/community. He is a fantastic ambassador for the club and IMO would be perfect for that position.