Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:03 am  

It looks like plenty of our youngsters will get an opportunity to play reserve rugby against teams with some big, experienced lads in the opposition ranks. As and when needed fringe first teamers will get a game to keep them sharp as well.

It sounds ideal to me.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:13 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

It looks like plenty of our youngsters will get an opportunity to play reserve rugby against teams with some big, experienced lads in the opposition ranks. As and when needed fringe first teamers will get a game to keep them sharp as well.

It sounds ideal to me.

Correct

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:13 pm  

Ruddy Duck wrote:

The reserve team as a result of there being now being only 27 establised players in the first team squad instead of the normal three dozen or so will mean that a number of players in the Academy will have to double up and play more games than players of the Academy have done in previous seasons.

The financial situation caused by the lack of income from the last eighteen months of the pandemic will mean that most clubs will have to have to make economies incuding trimming their normal first team squads with more reliance on younger players from their Academies. That is if they are forunate in having a Academy.

The pandemic has not helped Wigan and its finanancies with the losses previously sustained from the playing of the game at Millwall, the tour to Australia and the move of the headquaters of the club to the Robin Park Arena which has led to the financial problem in maintaining its normal quality and standard of the first team squad.

Why do you think that Leulaui who was expected to retire has suddenly made the decision to carrying on playing for the next twelve month and IL stating that the club may be only signing one more player and that could only be to replace a player rumoured not to be coming back or to replaced a player rumoured to be leaving the club.

The only alternative is for the club to get more investment, otherwise its going to be a long and winding road for the club.!

We are led to believe we are up to the cap other than the money available for the stand off that IL said we needed. (At this stage we are unsure if this stance has changed since Tommy extended).

However, the club having money available / spending it doesn't appear to be the issue?
- We are almost at the cap
- We have 1 out of 2 marquee spots filled

The issue is the squad management and what seems like we have spent a lot of our cap on the young forwards which has resulted in an imbalance.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:28 pm  

nathan_rugby wrote:

We are led to believe we are up to the cap other than the money available for the stand off that IL said we needed. (At this stage we are unsure if this stance has changed since Tommy extended).

However, the club having money available / spending it doesn't appear to be the issue?
- We are almost at the cap
- We have 1 out of 2 marquee spots filled

The issue is the squad management and what seems like we have spent a lot of our cap on the young forwards which has resulted in an imbalance.

We haven't
That is ever expanding Myth peddled and twisted after 1 statement were a Hypothetical situation was given wit a hypothetical answer in a Fans forum

Partington/Byrne/Smithies/Havard etc. are NOT playing for what people are quoting as a "Lot of Cap" money or the Hypothetical 100K that was said at the fans forum

Our Squad is Plenty big enough - Whether it is Good enough remains to be seen, I don't think it is, but not by a million miles that the pessimists are pushing
A Halfback (and whether that's someone to replace TL or alongside, whether its Jai Field) and a centre (Again either to play with Hardaker or if we have to replace him) and I think were not far off
Trouble is we can't do both I don't think

KR's words were 73k left AFTER a ring fenced amount was put to one side for a Halfback

If Tommy is the halfback then he takes some of that ring fenced figure (Whatever that was) and what's left plus the 73k is remaining

As I say - The squad is big enough
1 Release (Tommy) and 2 signings
or
2 Releases (Tommy & Zak) and maybe 3 (Max 4) signings and were in the hunt

As for 1 of our 2 Marquee spots filled - That won't be true
The club will nominate as their Marquees whichever 2 players give them the most cap dispensation - Bateman will be one, the second will be allocated to either an overseas/no club trained player who is on 150k or more (French maybe?) - or a Local player who is on 75k or more (Farrell for example).



Finding a centre and/or Halfback with 73k - or

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:34 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

We haven't
That is ever expanding Myth peddled and twisted after 1 statement were a Hypothetical situation was given wit a hypothetical answer in a Fans forum

Partington/Byrne/Smithies/Havard etc. are NOT playing for what people are quoting as a "Lot of Cap" money or the Hypothetical 100K that was said at the fans forum

Our Squad is Plenty big enough - Whether it is Good enough remains to be seen, I don't think it is, but not by a million miles that the pessimists are pushing
A Halfback (and whether that's someone to replace TL or alongside, whether its Jai Field) and a centre (Again either to play with Hardaker or if we have to replace him) and I think were not far off
Trouble is we can't do both I don't think

KR's words were 73k left AFTER a ring fenced amount was put to one side for a Halfback

If Tommy is the halfback then he takes some of that ring fenced figure (Whatever that was) and what's left plus the 73k is remaining

As I say - The squad is big enough
1 Release (Tommy) and 2 signings
or
2 Releases (Tommy & Zak) and maybe 3 (Max 4) signings and were in the hunt

As for 1 of our 2 Marquee spots filled - That won't be true
The club will nominate as their Marquees whichever 2 players give them the most cap dispensation - Bateman will be one, the second will be allocated to either an overseas/no club trained player who is on 150k or more (French maybe?) - or a Local player who is on 75k or more (Farrell for example).



Finding a centre and/or Halfback with 73k - or

So you think our squad for next season, minus the money spare for a stand off represents good value and therefore cap spend?

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Nov 03, 2021 4:23 pm  

nathan_rugby wrote:

So you think our squad for next season, minus the money spare for a stand off represents good value and therefore cap spend?

I think it's "Ok" - No better, no worse

Do I think it's as good as say 2016/17/18 - No - But the experts (Sorry Fans who didn't want Sarginson/Gelling/Matty Smith/Sutton etc and subsequently went on to criticise Williams/Gildart etc. got their wishes and those players moved on - Some off their own backs, some to "Test" themselves and I know in one instance which I think was criminal because the club listened to the fans, and in some ways probably did the same thing with the Wane situation (I think It played some part)

I keep referring back the Edwards & Subsequently Lam issue - And I can't keep reiterating for those who think I'm a Happy clapper, they were very poor mistakes

But I say again - The squads for 19/20/21 were Top 1/2/3 and Trophy challenging squads without a doubt - We didn't get 70% of what we should have done in that period out of those players/squads

ironically - we now have IMO the opposite - And I accept the squad relatively in comparison with other squads may be 80% of what I would want/Think would be good enough for Top/2nd etc. - I'm hoping the coaching/cultiure change will bring out that extra 10/20%

French/Hardaker/Bateman/Farrell - Plus, rightly or wrongly which only time will tell, Field/Mago/Ellis who won't be playing on the other side of the world for Peanuts - Will take up quite a bit of cap Marquee or not for 2 of them
The next batch - Marshall/Bibby/Thornley/Miski/Tommy/Smith/Singleton/Havard/Powell/Isa for example will be the guys on the Mid range/Seasoned professionals - With the Partington/Byrne's/Smithies/KPP/Shorrocks/Hankinson etc being the guys on the Younger element and coming through wages (Let's say average of 40k ish each) with others Hanley/Halsall/O'neill/McDonnel/Nicholson etc etc on the 20/30/40 increment scales.

Are there issues? Yes
Does the Halfback conundrum & The Hardaker situation complicate that - Yes

But once we know the answers to those 2 questions I may feel 10/20% better or 10/20% worse

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:43 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

I think it's "Ok" - No better, no worse

Do I think it's as good as say 2016/17/18 - No - But the experts (Sorry Fans who didn't want Sarginson/Gelling/Matty Smith/Sutton etc and subsequently went on to criticise Williams/Gildart etc. got their wishes and those players moved on - Some off their own backs, some to "Test" themselves and I know in one instance which I think was criminal because the club listened to the fans, and in some ways probably did the same thing with the Wane situation (I think It played some part)

I keep referring back the Edwards & Subsequently Lam issue - And I can't keep reiterating for those who think I'm a Happy clapper, they were very poor mistakes

But I say again - The squads for 19/20/21 were Top 1/2/3 and Trophy challenging squads without a doubt - We didn't get 70% of what we should have done in that period out of those players/squads

ironically - we now have IMO the opposite - And I accept the squad relatively in comparison with other squads may be 80% of what I would want/Think would be good enough for Top/2nd etc. - I'm hoping the coaching/cultiure change will bring out that extra 10/20%

French/Hardaker/Bateman/Farrell - Plus, rightly or wrongly which only time will tell, Field/Mago/Ellis who won't be playing on the other side of the world for Peanuts - Will take up quite a bit of cap Marquee or not for 2 of them
The next batch - Marshall/Bibby/Thornley/Miski/Tommy/Smith/Singleton/Havard/Powell/Isa for example will be the guys on the Mid range/Seasoned professionals - With the Partington/Byrne's/Smithies/KPP/Shorrocks/Hankinson etc being the guys on the Younger element and coming through wages (Let's say average of 40k ish each) with others Hanley/Halsall/O'neill/McDonnel/Nicholson etc etc on the 20/30/40 increment scales.

Are there issues? Yes
Does the Halfback conundrum & The Hardaker situation complicate that - Yes

But once we know the answers to those 2 questions I may feel 10/20% better or 10/20% worse

Agree with a lot of this post but the red bit i think is fairly justifiable. Sarginson, i liked and wished he was still here tbh. Gelling i wasn't too keen on, other than being a bit of a maverick i wasn't that struck on him. Matty Smith was a poor half back for the top level. His performances bar a handful are akin to what we got from his namesake last year. Sutton, i will admit, i wasn't that keen but there is no doubt he has blossomed for Canberra. Williams i always thought was overrated and now he is earning a fortune at Warrington, that is now their problem. I haven't read many good things about him over there. Gildart is far too injury prone, carrying a dead weight with him un-fortunately, I like his as a player but his main asset is pace and that is diminishing by the season.

Wane got the best out of players like Tautai (who i thought was abysmal) so if he can get that out of the Havards of this world they will no doubt improve.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:56 pm  

The big wins for us will be the likes of Havard, Smithies and Smith kicking on. It was tough for all the young kids to kick on last year with a lack of grunt in the middle and so many injuries to big players but if those issues don’t appear next season, I think it’s only right to think that a couple of the young lads should take the next steps.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:55 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

I think it's "Ok" - No better, no worse

Do I think it's as good as say 2016/17/18 - No - But the experts (Sorry Fans who didn't want Sarginson/Gelling/Matty Smith/Sutton etc and subsequently went on to criticise Williams/Gildart etc. got their wishes and those players moved on - Some off their own backs, some to "Test" themselves and I know in one instance which I think was criminal because the club listened to the fans, and in some ways probably did the same thing with the Wane situation (I think It played some part)

I keep referring back the Edwards & Subsequently Lam issue - And I can't keep reiterating for those who think I'm a Happy clapper, they were very poor mistakes

But I say again - The squads for 19/20/21 were Top 1/2/3 and Trophy challenging squads without a doubt - We didn't get 70% of what we should have done in that period out of those players/squads

ironically - we now have IMO the opposite - And I accept the squad relatively in comparison with other squads may be 80% of what I would want/Think would be good enough for Top/2nd etc. - I'm hoping the coaching/cultiure change will bring out that extra 10/20%

French/Hardaker/Bateman/Farrell - Plus, rightly or wrongly which only time will tell, Field/Mago/Ellis who won't be playing on the other side of the world for Peanuts - Will take up quite a bit of cap Marquee or not for 2 of them
The next batch - Marshall/Bibby/Thornley/Miski/Tommy/Smith/Singleton/Havard/Powell/Isa for example will be the guys on the Mid range/Seasoned professionals - With the Partington/Byrne's/Smithies/KPP/Shorrocks/Hankinson etc being the guys on the Younger element and coming through wages (Let's say average of 40k ish each) with others Hanley/Halsall/O'neill/McDonnel/Nicholson etc etc on the 20/30/40 increment scales.

Are there issues? Yes
Does the Halfback conundrum & The Hardaker situation complicate that - Yes

But once we know the answers to those 2 questions I may feel 10/20% better or 10/20% worse

Sarginson and Gelling or as I called them Can’t Pass and Won’t Pass were part of the reasons why I gave my ST away in 2016 and 2017 and didn’t attend either of the finals we got to in those years.
Sarginson put in some decent if somewhat limited efforts at FB but I never rated him as a starting strike centre.
Williams and Gildart are better than anything we have so far for 2022 and their absence for me is to detriment to the quality of the squad.

I was a big fan of Sutton and never understood the criticism he got but would acknowledge I always thought there was actually a better player in him before his move to Australia than he displayed.

I agree with you that until the HB and Hardaker situations are finally resolved it’s difficult to assess the overall the squad.

The area for me where we appear to be in “make do” mode is at centre. We don’t have one single really decent centre (and I include Hardaker here) where we have some real pace and rapier attack but will be relying upon a more blunt approach and will look to bludgeon our way down the centres with no alternative on offer. Oh what I’d give for a George Carmont.

As a slight aside I’d be surprised if Harvard isn’t on a salary far higher than any of the other young guns in the squad

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:02 pm  

Our forwards will no doubt benefit from the arrival of Ellis and Mago. However how good are they both? Footage of either has been scarce due to limited first team appearances, Mago the more established of the two I believe.

However I'm confident that it can't be anywhere near as bad as last season when our young forwards were seriously exposed with no additional help. No doubt our go forward WILL be better than 2021.

Could we be weaker in the backs this season though? At lot depends on three players:

French, Field and Hardaker.

One is potentially unhappy and may decide to leave.
The other two coming back from injuries and need good preseasons.

And finally are we looking to bring in any additional signings as cover/replacements.

I'd like to think we can compete (top 3-4) as surely we can't be as bad/worse than last year. Still a fair bit away from Saints and potentially Wire next year, need to start winning some big games.