Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Dec 26, 2022 1:15 pm  

dh13 wrote:

I’ve got absolutely no issue with Bateman leaving, but the club trying to make out that Isa moving back to his preferred position, is an adequate substitute for a marquee player, is absolutely laughable. Very frustrating!

I don't think that's taking the whole statement into account. They said that with Isa, KPP, Farrell and Smithies there are options in the short term and we will look for recruitment opportunities in the medium term.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Dec 26, 2022 1:24 pm  

MadDogg wrote:

I don't think that's taking the whole statement into account. They said that with Isa, KPP, Farrell and Smithies there are options in the short term and we will look for recruitment opportunities in the medium term.

Is that good enough though? I personally don’t think it is, but it’s all opinions isn’t it!

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Dec 26, 2022 1:36 pm  

Simba16 wrote:

jonh wrote:

sergeant pepper wrote:

jonh wrote:

sergeant pepper wrote:

Apart from some potential depth, we don't need anyone in the backrow.

Faz = best 2nd row in the comp
Smithies was outstanding last year and it was criminal Wane left him out of the WC. I hate to see us move him for anyone - make him VC and give him the 13 shirt.
KPP = one of the games most sought after prospects.
Isa and Nesmba as a backup.

Props an issue however. Singleton, regardless of what people say on here, is one of the worst props in the game. It's criminal he's even a pro, nevermind a Wigan player. Mago, seems well liked, but doesn't seem to trusted or able to do big mins either.

Under that scenario you are expecting either Isa or Nsemba to be a key part of the 17 every week.

Isa is a warrior but I would not be comfortable with him in the 17 every week. Asking a kid with bags of potential to step forward into that role could very well destroy his career.

Singleton I rate he is the throwback we lacked for so long who may not do the eye catching stuff but puts his head where others don’t.

Mago needs to offer more consistency.

I'd happily see us share that role between Isa and Nesemba.

That line about Singleton is one of those myths that gets rolled out when people talk about him. It's one of the RL'isms and the opposite to when a player is labelled as 'soft'. In the real world, his stats are dire and we struggle to get on top, when he's on the pitch. It's why we signed Cooper i.e the player we thought we'd got with Cooper.

Just following up on the “dire stats” and as I’m a bit of a stickler for such things and if you are sad enough to actually spend 40 minutes analysing the stats of all our props from last year it makes very interesting reading.

Based on the following criteria over the course of the season -

Average gain, marker tackles, offloads, tackle busts, tackles, penalties, missed tackles and errors.

Singleton shows up pretty well. Probably our 3rd most influential prop in the squad statistically, 5th best from an attacking point of view but just first on defence and the first and second are a long way of the rest in the defensive department.

What was also interesting statistically is the fact Ellis is probably our number one prop over the course of the season and perhaps why the coaches speak so highly of him.

We have on our books next year Cooper, Singleton, Byrne, Havard, Mago, Ellis as front line props. We also have Smithies who has moved forward into that position at times very well last year and Hill coming through who made the England Knights squad.

If Bateman goes I’m more convinced than ever we need to replace him with either a like for like or a “middle”.

It’s also interesting that you seem to be pushing Nsemba over Hill as a first team prospect in 23 over Hill an England Knights player.

Like I said though interested to understand why Singletons stats are “dire”.

Interesting stuff on Singo and Ellis.

Its possibly easier to transition a 2nd row into the team than a prop and now that Batman has been confirmed Nsemba will get game time. That Hill is being pushed forward shows what great potential he has.

That squad will not win us a Grand Final.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Dec 26, 2022 1:37 pm  

We now need to get Smithies signed up before he decides to leave at the end of the season.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Dec 26, 2022 1:45 pm  

dh13 wrote:

MadDogg wrote:

I don't think that's taking the whole statement into account. They said that with Isa, KPP, Farrell and Smithies there are options in the short term and we will look for recruitment opportunities in the medium term.

Is that good enough though? I personally don’t think it is, but it’s all opinions isn’t it!

What would you do given the circumstances? I don't think forcing Bateman to stay would be the right option. Some people keep referring to Nicholson but that was just unfortunate timing - the club wanted to keep him but there was a quicker route to the first team at Warrington. I've no doubt he'd still be at Wigan if Bateman had left at the end of last year.

The mistake Wigan made was continuing to allocate a quota spot to Willie Isa at the end of 2021 leaving no flexibility for overseas recruitment.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Dec 26, 2022 1:54 pm  

MadDogg wrote:

dh13 wrote:

MadDogg wrote:

I don't think that's taking the whole statement into account. They said that with Isa, KPP, Farrell and Smithies there are options in the short term and we will look for recruitment opportunities in the medium term.

Is that good enough though? I personally don’t think it is, but it’s all opinions isn’t it!

What would you do given the circumstances? I don't think forcing Bateman to stay would be the right option. Some people keep referring to Nicholson but that was just unfortunate timing - the club wanted to keep him but there was a quicker route to the first team at Warrington. I've no doubt he'd still be at Wigan if Bateman had left at the end of last year.

The mistake Wigan made was continuing to allocate a quota spot to Willie Isa at the end of 2021 leaving no flexibility for overseas recruitment.

The club should have being a lot more proactive in terms of finding a replacement as soon as the ball started rolling with this. I appreciate that it’s easier said than done, as the club shot itself in the foot carrying two squad players on the quota so it has really limited us in the transfer market.

But going into a new season a key player and a big presence light, isn’t what we should be doing. But like we’ve said, the club has made a rod for their own back with the quota situation.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Dec 26, 2022 2:16 pm  

dh13 wrote:

MadDogg wrote:

dh13 wrote:

MadDogg wrote:

I don't think that's taking the whole statement into account. They said that with Isa, KPP, Farrell and Smithies there are options in the short term and we will look for recruitment opportunities in the medium term.

Is that good enough though? I personally don’t think it is, but it’s all opinions isn’t it!

What would you do given the circumstances? I don't think forcing Bateman to stay would be the right option. Some people keep referring to Nicholson but that was just unfortunate timing - the club wanted to keep him but there was a quicker route to the first team at Warrington. I've no doubt he'd still be at Wigan if Bateman had left at the end of last year.

The mistake Wigan made was continuing to allocate a quota spot to Willie Isa at the end of 2021 leaving no flexibility for overseas recruitment.

The club should have being a lot more proactive in terms of finding a replacement as soon as the ball started rolling with this. I appreciate that it’s easier said than done, as the club shot itself in the foot carrying two squad players on the quota so it has really limited us in the transfer market.

But going into a new season a key player and a big presence light, isn’t what we should be doing. But like we’ve said, the club has made a rod for their own back with the quota situation.

I think that's why the club went into detail in the statement. They're essentially saying their hands have been tied for the last few months as Bateman was non-committal about his intentions.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:38 pm  

MadDogg wrote:

dh13 wrote:

MadDogg wrote:

dh13 wrote:

MadDogg wrote:

I don't think that's taking the whole statement into account. They said that with Isa, KPP, Farrell and Smithies there are options in the short term and we will look for recruitment opportunities in the medium term.

Is that good enough though? I personally don’t think it is, but it’s all opinions isn’t it!

What would you do given the circumstances? I don't think forcing Bateman to stay would be the right option. Some people keep referring to Nicholson but that was just unfortunate timing - the club wanted to keep him but there was a quicker route to the first team at Warrington. I've no doubt he'd still be at Wigan if Bateman had left at the end of last year.

The mistake Wigan made was continuing to allocate a quota spot to Willie Isa at the end of 2021 leaving no flexibility for overseas recruitment.

The club should have being a lot more proactive in terms of finding a replacement as soon as the ball started rolling with this. I appreciate that it’s easier said than done, as the club shot itself in the foot carrying two squad players on the quota so it has really limited us in the transfer market.

But going into a new season a key player and a big presence light, isn’t what we should be doing. But like we’ve said, the club has made a rod for their own back with the quota situation.

I think that's why the club went into detail in the statement. They're essentially saying their hands have been tied for the last few months as Bateman was non-committal about his intentions.

West Tigers / Bateman have been waiting on the NRL to release the new salary cap limit. Thats been the hold up, so until it was confirmed that they could sign then everyone was in limbo.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:48 pm  

Good player ? Definitely, was he worth the money he was on ? probably not second time around.
We've plenty of options around the back three and if it works out in the early part of the season the club is knocking a fair chunk of the losses off and if it doesn't then we've got cash available for a mid season signing

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:22 pm  

This Bateman move is tough on James McDonnell who could have got game time with him going. McDonnell is a good player, a bit like a Harrison Hansen or Mick Cassidy type of player and could run hard too. Nsemba also a strong running back rower with heart.

I don’t think we need to replace Bateman for another back rower, though I would upgrade on Mago (if he hasn’t got himself leaner and fitter) or Singleton and get ourselves a better prop in place of one of those.

Our back row despite losing Nicholson and McDonnell is still strong in the reserves with Nsemba and Beardsworth coming through, Beardsworth a fierce tackler who can smash people.