Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:11 am  

Stu M wrote:

I don't think its as simplistic as that. If the Salary Cap was suddenly 3 times bigger we still couldn't pay our players what they earn it Australia. There are some clubs that don't spend the full cap as it is now. The fact that its their National Sport and the tv deals and sponsorship that the NRL attracts puts them in a different stratosphere to our game. Whether we like it or not our game is still predominantly a working class Northern sport and even then its Lancashire, Yorkshire and Humberside in the main.

Our grim weather doesn't stop PL football clubs from having the best players in the world here

If we continue to apply the status quo our game is dead.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:14 am  

Stu M wrote:

I don't think its as simplistic as that. If the Salary Cap was suddenly 3 times bigger we still couldn't pay our players what they earn it Australia. There are some clubs that don't spend the full cap as it is now. The fact that its their National Sport and the tv deals and sponsorship that the NRL attracts puts them in a different stratosphere to our game. Whether we like it or not our game is still predominantly a working class Northern sport and even then its Lancashire, Yorkshire and Humberside in the main.

Our grim weather doesn't stop PL football clubs from having the best players in the world here

Most PL footballers aren't given the option of coming to Wigan or staying on Bondi Beach.

I didn't say it was simple. Just that it isn't rocket science that restricting pay opportunities is going to make things harder. I appreciate the RFL can't do much about the weather or our post-industrial wastelands, but they can do something about pay).

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:15 am  

TheWarringtonWolve69 wrote:

And the knowledgeable posters on redvee said months ago that he had no intention of signing for St Helens. It’s like they actually have inside knowledge. In fact, the poster who said this also told redvee that regan grace had signed for a union team that wasn’t in England 2 months before it was announced. Hmm, wonder who that was lmao.

That’s where your argument fails, there are no knowledgeable posters on Red Vee.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:30 am  

Cruncher wrote:

Most PL footballers aren't given the option of coming to Wigan or staying on Bondi Beach.

I didn't say it was simple. Just that it isn't rocket science that restricting pay opportunities is going to make things harder. I appreciate the RFL can't do much about the weather or our post-industrial wastelands, but they can do something about pay).

No but they still choose Manchester or Liverpool over Barcelona or Madrid

How can we pay the salaries that the NRL do though? The game simply doens't generate enough money. The only way I could see this happening would be for marquee players to be paid by businesses through the club. Clubs can't afford to pay the top salaries like they are in the NRL.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:46 pm  

Stu M wrote:

No but they still choose Manchester or Liverpool over Barcelona or Madrid

How can we pay the salaries that the NRL do though? The game simply doesn't generate enough money. The only way I could see this happening would be for marquee players to be paid by businesses through the club. Clubs can't afford to pay the top salaries like they are in the NRL.

Chicken & Egg

20 years of terrible policies from the RFL have led us to this point and the disparity with the NRL
The gaps in TV income, Exposure, Numbers playing the game etc. etc. etc. etc.
You can't just sit there now and say were that far behind like we were always this far behind and use it as a reason not to change , we weren't.
No-one is saying we could have kept up with them in parallel - But we shouldn't be this far behind
No-one is saying we should be getting the TV income they are now - But we shouldn;t have been so far behind as we are
The promotion of the game has been terrible, the dwindling numbers in the game are driven by the decision making at the top end - it's been, by and large, terrible.

Saying RL is a "Northern" game is a nit disingenuous, considering we have Cagalans/Toulouse,London etc. - We've just not done all of it very well
Rob Purdham at the Lions event on Saturday said that 10 years or so ago there were Hundreds of thousands of kids playing RL in schools in London - They're not now anywhere near to that extent.
Isn't RL juts an East Coast game in Australia??? It's not stopped them (It's not really their National game but that's a slightly different argument) and if it is their national game, it really wasn;t always that way - what did they do to make it that way? We know that's a Pipe dream here, but let's aim to make RL No2 or whatever - Because currently were lucky if were Top 10!

Your saying kids can choose to play for Man U or Liverpool
Yes - But here they haven;t go that option - So it is Wigan/Saints/Wire/Salford/Leigh etc. for a local lad or Australia - And currently that's 40/50k a year for around a 21year old or 100/120k a year in Aus for the equivalent player - it;s a no brainer

You mention getting large companies to sponsor Marguee players - Yeah do it - Do something
Wigan made a slight error in accounting for an agents fee and put it in a wrong box 3 years ago and they wanted to knock 2 points of us - FFS!!!!!

years ago Scully had contracts with Gillette etc. - They put a stop to loads of that and started counting it towards the cap etc.!!!!

Personally I agree their should be a form of Cap - Bit currently given the situation over the last 15 or so years I'd rather Not have one - The issues of not having one would be less that having one!!!!

If we are to survive for the next 50years as a fully professional game etc and stay somewhere near the Aussies etc. the game needs to throw away the cautionary/sterile safety first race to the bottom thinking of the last 15-20 years
It needs to take risks, be welcoming to new ideas, new influences, new investment etc.

The game didn;t just wake up one morning and found itself 15 years behind Australia - It Slept walked into it - We (The game/The RFL etc.) in most ways Chose this path, and it's led us here.

Someone needs to look at how that happened, and never let it happen again, and reverse some of those missed opportunities and make sure we don't continue to sleep walk

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:58 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Snip

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say. We've made some terrible decisions as a Sport. Even the salary cap which has supposed to level the field hasn't really as such as there have still only been 4 different winners of the Grand Final since 98 although at least Catalans and Salford have made the Final recently

Also I said it was a "predominantly" Northern game which it is really even with the odd team like Catalans, Toulouse and London.

Personally I'd get Eddie Hearn involved but thats blue sky thinking that the traditionalists at the RFL won't entertain. You look what they have done with darts and its staggering.

My two lads (12 & 10) are ST holders now at Saints for the first time this season and yet are looking forward more to the PL darts tonight than the RL season starting and thats on the back of us winning it 4 in a row. Granted Michael Smith being from St Helens and a Saints fan has massively piqued their interest but you get my point.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:05 pm  

"Chicken and Egg" - what a great post.

I agree with it all and won't go point by point but I'll add to

Salary Cap - if a good number of teams are spending below it - whats its point? I get the "stop teams spending too much" arguement but could it be better implemented?

Money from endorsements - why is this counted on the cap - total madness - right now in the advertsing ticker I can see the England RU scrum half Youngs taking money from RL fans!!!

I fear that it is a race to the bottom and we are winning

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:44 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Chicken & Egg...

Great post.

Let's not lay all the blame at the feet of the RFL however. The fans have played a part too. From the green-eyed envy of the best RL side the games ever seen i.e Wigan in the 80/90's, or the constant snipes at the games best players - it's toxic.

I remember when Sam 1st broke through, you could sense the frustration in opposition fans if he was either on TV, or used in advertising. Phrases like "media darling" being used as a perceived insult against him. God forbid we tried to make a star, or allowed him to develop a following etc.

Koukash also springs to mind. A real money man, with a passion for the game and someone who wanted to invest and spend his cash. He was treated like an outcast for it tho? Why? Jealousy is my initial thought. God forbid someone in RL has something that teams like Wakey or Cas don't etc. Bring down Vs letting someone build up.

It isn't just opposition fans too. There's nothing worse, or more deflating, imo than speaking to Wigan fans (especially those newer ones) who buy into the BS that our game leading days are either something shameful of, or shouldn't be the goal going forward.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:21 pm  

Great post Jukesy and...it pains me to say... unfortunately, spot on!

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:17 pm  

Phuzzy wrote:

Same person that said Bateman would 100% be at Wigan this coming season and that Wigan had no chance of signing Wardle, by any chance?

Those that are actually in the know, know how fluid contract discussions can be. It’s easy to claim, a week after it’s confirmed “yeah I have a source and he told me about this” like Stu M does. That’s just lazy and trying to make yourself look important. It’s utterly embarassing. However, a certain poster on redvee rubbished all the talk about Murphy months ago and also broke the news about grace months before it was announced. Who was that I wonder?