Re: : Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:31 am  

FIOS wrote:

Not to mention Salford nearly went, crusaders did, widnes had to restart. This licensing era has been a huge disaster.

But closely "micro managed" apparently....

Re: : Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:36 am  

FIOS wrote:

Not to mention Salford nearly went, crusaders did, widnes had to restart. This licensing era has been a huge disaster.

To be fair during the same period the whole country (along with most of the developed world) has gone through the biggest recession for 100 years if not longer.

The recession meant that your traditional rugby league club owners (local businessman made good) were largely hit. Some clubs such as Wigan and Warrington were lucky in that their owners did better than a lot of their peers. This is alongside the fact that banks are no longer as accommodating with their lending or over-draft facilities.

The fact is that if Lenegan decided that he'd had enough then the banks would pull the plug on Wigan and Wigan would be in exactly the same position as Bradford (although Wigan's overdraft and outstanding loans massivley exceed those that brought Bradford down). In Wigan's latest accounts it is confirmed that the bank only support the overdraft and loans due to Lenegan continued personal guarantees.

Easy to mock the Bradfords and Wakefields of the game but there but for the grace of God for the rest of us. The game needs solid foundations of assett rich clubs to avoid reliance on individuals for working capital.

Re: Re: : Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:41 pm  

Paul Youane wrote:

To be fair during the same period the whole country (along with most of the developed world) has gone through the biggest recession for 100 years if not longer.

The recession meant that your traditional rugby league club owners (local businessman made good) were largely hit. Some clubs such as Wigan and Warrington were lucky in that their owners did better than a lot of their peers. This is alongside the fact that banks are no longer as accommodating with their lending or over-draft facilities.

The fact is that if Lenegan decided that he'd had enough then the banks would pull the plug on Wigan and Wigan would be in exactly the same position as Bradford (although Wigan's overdraft and outstanding loans massivley exceed those that brought Bradford down). In Wigan's latest accounts it is confirmed that the bank only support the overdraft and loans due to Lenegan continued personal guarantees.

Easy to mock the Bradfords and Wakefields of the game but there but for the grace of God for the rest of us. The game needs solid foundations of assett rich clubs to avoid reliance on individuals for working capital.

Agree that it is all too easy to cast judgmental glances.

I see real parallels between the Bulls and Saints, one of the key differences being we were lucky enough to get EMcM on board whilst the Bulls fans have been treated to a parade of muppets.

Re: Re: : Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:42 pm  

Paul Youane wrote:

To be fair during the same period the whole country (along with most of the developed world) has gone through the biggest recession for 100 years if not longer.

The recession meant that your traditional rugby league club owners (local businessman made good) were largely hit. Some clubs such as Wigan and Warrington were lucky in that their owners did better than a lot of their peers. This is alongside the fact that banks are no longer as accommodating with their lending or over-draft facilities.

The fact is that if Lenegan decided that he'd had enough then the banks would pull the plug on Wigan and Wigan would be in exactly the same position as Bradford (although Wigan's overdraft and outstanding loans massivley exceed those that brought Bradford down). In Wigan's latest accounts it is confirmed that the bank only support the overdraft and loans due to Lenegan continued personal guarantees.

Easy to mock the Bradfords and Wakefields of the game but there but for the grace of God for the rest of us. The game needs solid foundations of assett rich clubs to avoid reliance on individuals for working capital.

? we are in a very healthy financial position

Re: Re: : Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:55 pm  

Pieman wrote:

? we are in a very healthy financial position

Is that a statement or a question?

Wigan are not in a "very healthy financial position" at all. They are sustainable with the continued support of Lenegan without it they are insolvent. For example at the time of the last accounts Wigan were £500k into an overdraft facility dependant upon Lengan's personal guarantees. If he withdrew those guarantees the bank would demand repayment of that overdraft which is exactly what happened with Bradford.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:13 pm  

It was questioning your statement, thats why it was first...That was due to wigan making payment to develop Orrell. We have made over 500k in transfer fees alone this year. Without gate receipts, merchandise, sponsorship and prize money.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:05 pm  

Wigan have around a £6.2m turnover from the 2012 accounts.
Next year the club will receive transfer monies from -:
Tomkins - £700k divided by 3 = £233k
Hock - £200k? £200k
Mossop - £100k divided by 2 £ 50k

Those three would almost pay off any debts the club has.
There is also the money from reaching and winning two finals.

Those are monies available which would not show in the previous year's balance sheet. Though in the 2012 a/c will be the sums involved with Joel T's transfer to Union and the purchase of Green, Taylor and Smith.
IL had plenty change from those transactions

Company accounts can hide the weakness of a business and also not quite give the strength of a company too.

Financially Wigan RL is very strong.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:10 pm  

Pieman wrote:

It was questioning your statement, thats why it was first...That was due to wigan making payment to develop Orrell. We have made over 500k in transfer fees alone this year. Without gate receipts, merchandise, sponsorship and prize money.

And you were able to secure the money to redevelop orrell because of lenagan, as Paul said.

And whilst your transfer activity is very commendable from a financial standpoint, how long is that sustainable realistically? Could you lose another 500k from the squad next year and still feel competitive? What about the year after that? Bear in mind it's taken tomkins 4 years to be in the position he's was in, and others longer. And hasn't also factored in players wages, backroom staff wages (which will be a lot higher than others in the league as Wigan have more than anyone else) administrative costs, stadium rental and so on.

Wigan, Warrington, Saints and Leeds are all in relatively strong financial positions, but all would go the way of Bradford should the chairman pull out, be under no illusions. Don't get me wrong, the 4 teams above are all run very well by their respective chairmen, which in itself is also hugely beneficial in avoiding situations like Bradford, but there's only so long places can last without money.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:38 pm  

Looks like we are selling Hansen and are trading at a profit witjhout the transfers so i would suggest we probably are one of if not the best financial position in super league

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:47 pm  

Have we factored in the cost of extra trophy cabinets, and the money that IL has allegedly trousered?