Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:59 am  

[Gareth] wrote:

Surprised Welsby is still in SL but Dodd is nowhere near good enough for the NRL atm

I agree on Dodd based on this season's form. He is either playing within himself due to the injury or he's sticking to very rigid and structured instructions from the coaching staff. But he is capable of so much more. Pre-injury he was the best 7 in the competition and that was widely recognised. But this season he has been so poor.

Harry Smith has comfortably outplayed him for example but based on pure natural ability I think Dodd still has a higher ceiling than Smith. But potential is one thing and actually delivering the goods is another. Smith is quite clearly ahead of Dodd right now and the 2023 version of Dodd would get chewed up and spat out in the NRL.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:06 am  

Grimmy wrote:

Alternatively do we get better players because they know they'll be able to progress to the NRL if they perform for us? If Wigan started playing hardball with players in this situation and I was a talented younger player I'd think twice about signing for Wigan.

You'd "think twice about signing for Wigan" because they could play hard ball with you going to the NRL? So by that logic, you'd potentially consider going to a side who aren't as good at developing young players & probably don't bring them through as well, just so you can break a contract in 8 or 9 years to go to the NRL? That's just absolutely backwards thinking.

Here's a novel idea, if you're a talented player and have aspirations to play in the NRL don't sign long term contracts with your current club. Instead of a 4 year one, sign a 2 year one and just leave at the end of it.

And before this becomes a bore fest of saying "who wouldn't change jobs for more money at a better company" I'll happily say that I wouldn't. If I'm in the middle of a big project, one with obvious upsides attached and have committed to it, then I'm seeing it out with my team.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:14 am  

Grimmy wrote:

Alternatively do we get better players because they know they'll be able to progress to the NRL if they perform for us? If Wigan started playing hardball with players in this situation and I was a talented younger player I'd go to a rival instead.

Then let them go to a rival. We aren't and should never be used as a springboard to the NRL.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:25 am  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

I agree on Dodd based on this season's form. He is either playing within himself due to the injury or he's sticking to very rigid and structured instructions from the coaching staff. But he is capable of so much more. Pre-injury he was the best 7 in the competition and that was widely recognised. But this season he has been so poor.

Harry Smith has comfortably outplayed him for example but based on pure natural ability I think Dodd still has a higher ceiling than Smith. But potential is one thing and actually delivering the goods is another. Smith is quite clearly ahead of Dodd right now and the 2023 version of Dodd would get chewed up and spat out in the NRL.

What is Dodd good at? I’m not acting the fool, I’m genuinely interested. He was so highly rated coming through but I look at his core skills and they’re all ok and no more. I think that Achilles injury has played a big part and taken some of that zip away. He reminded me a bit of Sean Long early on, with that scampering style of running but on the back of that injury, he’s had to fall back on his passing, kicking and organisational skills and he’s been found wanting from what I’ve seen. The beauty of Harry Smith is we know exactly what he’s good at and what he’s good at, is exactly what we need.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:34 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

What is Dodd good at? I’m not acting the fool, I’m genuinely interested. He was so highly rated coming through but I look at his core skills and they’re all ok and no more. I think that Achilles injury has played a big part and taken some of that zip away. He reminded me a bit of Sean Long early on, with that scampering style of running but on the back of that injury, he’s had to fall back on his passing, kicking and organisational skills and he’s been found wanting from what I’ve seen. The beauty of Harry Smith is we know exactly what he’s good at and what he’s good at, is exactly what we need.

Prior to that injury on Good Friday, he was sublime. Constantly taking on the line, had a great short kicking game, range of passing, his pace off the mark and sidestep was outstanding. I think your Sean Long analogy is a good one. Our attack was superb, we were pasting some teams, (scored over 40 at HKR for example just a few weeks before his injury)

I know Rogues will probably back me up on this but at the time of him coming through he was described as the finest young talent coming through and by a distance.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:42 am  

Stu M wrote:

Prior to that injury on Good Friday, he was sublime. Constantly taking on the line, had a great short kicking game, range of passing, his pace off the mark and sidestep was outstanding. I think your Sean Long analogy is a good one. Our attack was superb, we were pasting some teams, (scored over 40 at HKR for example just a few weeks before his injury)

I know Rogues will probably back me up on this but at the time of him coming through he was described as the finest young talent coming through and by a distance.

The hype was huge and he was playing really well up until that Good Friday injury. I think the jury has probably hit him physically and mentally. He looks a bit short on confidence and I do think we’ll see him bounce back next season.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:45 am  

What Stu said haha.

Dodd pre injury was better in every single facet of the game than he is now. He offered so much more of a running threat, his kicking was varied and he was solid in defence.

He reminds me now of how Luke Walsh was after he broke his leg. He does the bare minimum and just goes through the motions.

I can’t decide if it’s a lack of confidence or our very basic game plan holding him back. Or maybe both.

But to answer your question, he had literally everything you’d want in a half back before his injury.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:11 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

You'd "think twice about signing for Wigan" because they could play hard ball with you going to the NRL? So by that logic, you'd potentially consider going to a side who aren't as good at developing young players & probably don't bring them through as well, just so you can break a contract in 8 or 9 years to go to the NRL? That's just absolutely backwards thinking.

Here's a novel idea, if you're a talented player and have aspirations to play in the NRL don't sign long term contracts with your current club. Instead of a 4 year one, sign a 2 year one and just leave at the end of it.

And before this becomes a bore fest of saying "who wouldn't change jobs for more money at a better company" I'll happily say that I wouldn't. If I'm in the middle of a big project, one with obvious upsides attached and have committed to it, then I'm seeing it out with my team.

The problem with all this speculation is we do not know the details of his contract. He may very well not be breaking his contract.

We have no ideas what clauses are in there which both parties (Club & player) will have agreed on.

Very rarely is a 4 year deal not got a number of break clauses in them and performance/selection bonuses in there.

Given the obvious interest from the NRL I’m sure he will have had a release clause in there.

No point criticising the club with only half a story or an inaccurate perception of the facts.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:18 am  

It’s a big ‘if’ but if Wigan signed Owen Farrell, maybe they’ve done so knowing they can get money for Smithies now and it works for both parties for him to make the move now. I’m not saying they’ll have pushed him out but it could’ve been a case of his agent saying there us interest, Wigan seeing what they can do elsewhere and then it all falling in to place. I can’t see the Farrell deal happening and maybe the same sort of scenario played out with Luke Thompson. Rads admitted recently that Thompson only had a medical and signed the deal about two weeks ago. A transfer fee now and a top replacement seems a better deal for us than no fee and potentially no decent replacements being available in a year or two.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:19 am  

jonh wrote:

The problem with all this speculation is we do not know the details of his contract. He may very well not be breaking his contract.

We have no ideas what clauses are in there which both parties (Club & player) will have agreed on.

Very rarely is a 4 year deal not got a number of break clauses in them and performance/selection bonuses in there.

Given the obvious interest from the NRL I’m sure he will have had a release clause in there.

No point criticising the club with only half a story or an inaccurate perception of the facts.

I've not criticised the club?