Got this from RedVee https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/jo ... ion-career

Got this from RedVee https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/jo ... ion-career

Tomkins, he was instrumental in our 2018 Grand Final win. Left us because we offered him a reduced contract then went on to have (in my opinion) the best years of his career in 2019-2021.



Bateman was massively underrated in his second spell with us imo. Maybe not as unconventional in his playstyle as before, but certainly effective and i would say we were strengthened by him being here.



I would even say Joe Burgess, again better in his first spell but he was a solid winger for us on his return, maybe a bit unlucky with injuries. Scored a hat-trick in our WCC win and very influential in that game in particular. Think it is fair to say he strengthened us and has gone on to play well for Salford.







Wrote my section and drafted it earlier, i would probably agree with Sarge strengthening us on his return aswell.



You can't just blanket statement that no players are to return who leave for the NRL, it should always be judged on a case-by-case basis on what value that returning player can bring to our current squad.



On Sutton, i don't think he would bring a lot of value so no i wouldn't want him back. Also he has had some injury troubles since signing for Canterbury so would also be a risk i don't feel we need to take. Similar to my thoughts on Thompson, but now knowing that Smithies was leaving i can understand that one more.

Quote [Gareth="[Gareth"Got this from RedVee https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/jo ... ion-career'" Put that one on the same shelf as Will Carling claiming Leeds offered him a £1,000,000 in the era when Ellery Hanley cost around £200,000. Looks good in your biography, especially when you know you were never really tested by playing the real code, and no doubt the Union hordes will lap it up for the same reason - but the rest of the world can take it with a pinch of salt.

Quote [Gareth="[Gareth"Got this from RedVee https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/jo ... ion-career'" Put that one on the same shelf as Will Carling claiming Leeds offered him a £1,000,000 in the era when Ellery Hanley cost around £200,000. Looks good in your biography, especially when you know you were never really tested by playing the real code, and no doubt the Union hordes will lap it up for the same reason - but the rest of the world can take it with a pinch of salt.

Why would he need to lie about it? He is the most recognisable rugby player of modern times. Telling a lie about a provincial sport that no one really cares about isn’t going to generate extra book sales

It won't help him sell books, but that doesn't mean it isn't a fantasy.



The rumours about Owen Farrell have been circling for years. It was similar when Saints were chasing David Campesi. You don't seriously think there'd have been no rumours if Johnny Wilkinson had been on the verge of coming over?

Disrespectful might not be the best choice of words but between leaving us and going to Canberra he had obviously been training his off/dieting better and got himself in a condition he was never in at Wigan which transferred on to the pitch too.

I still can't fathom why certain Sutton loyalists don't understand this.



The evidence was there, right in front of our eyes.

Loyalists? Evidence ? What are you going on about?



The only FACT is that he played almost 120 games for the club & won two GF's - you don't do that if you aren't A - a good player, B - performing and C - in the right physical condition.



You make out like he was some waste of space, fat slob at Wigan. Sadly it's like a switch with some fans. When a player leaves he's instantly either overrated, or is a bad egg etc.



There's life outside of Wigan RL and the NRL is a bigger draw. Not sure why some fans don't understand this?

That’s not correct mate. Sutty was super fit at the end of his Wigan career. The reason for that was down to him training at Blundell’s as well as at Wigan.

Agree re Sutton he was a slow burner for me but in his last year, where he was still probably only 23/24, I thought he was outstanding and lost the puppy fat.



I’d have him back in an instant if he were coming back.

Firstly I’ll say I rated Sutton. He did a good job for us, was successful, durable and I also admired the fact he was straight up with the club about not signing a new deal and he played out his contract and didn’t try to force a way out.



Secondly though, I was somebody who questioned his motivation to get in such good shape, with only a few months left of his Wigan career, at the time he did it. You’re right, he was in way better shape ‘before’ he left Wigan but only a matter of a few months before. It was as clear as day to me that he choose to put that graft in ready for the pre season he’d be facing in the NRL. I found it slightly disappointing that it had taken that move being sealed to bring about that transformation but that’s been and gone. Maybe it was all a coincidence but it didn’t feel it at the time tbh.



In terms of him coming back to Superleague, I’d be interested to see how he got on if he did but from what you read, he’s very settled over there, with an Australian wife and family.

So long as it's without his spare tyre.



I've seen all the other posts, but can't be bothered replying to them all.



Suffice to say this: I can't be bowled over by the prospect of a guy returning to Wigan, who only seemed to get fit when he was due to leave the club. Maybe that was our fault, not being as tough with him as he knew Ricky Stuart would be, but it betrays a certain mindset that I've come to despise: Wigan RL are a stepping stone to greater things. That may be true in the modern age of RL but it's not something I grew up with, it's not something I like and it's not something I'm ever going to get used to.



Note ... this is not a blanket condemnation of players who leave Wigan, just those who do so but then give a lot more to other clubs than they gave to us. I wouldn't have thought that was a controversial opinion.

Who went to other clubs and gave more to them than us?

How unusual is it for the squad numbers not to be released with or before the new kit? Does this suggest we still have some "announcements" to make in both directions?

You’d have to think there will be movement in or out (or both) yet or else they’d have released them.

The guy we’re talking about, Sutton. I’ve not bagged anyone else for it (I don’t think).



I shouldn’t have put it in the plural, I suppose.



The likes of Betts, Clark, Robinson, Faz etc could hardly have done more in their time in Cherry and White, so no one could complain when they left.



In general terms, I’m not overly fond of players who try to wriggle out of contracts, but we don’t know what their private dealings with the club entail, so if they’re not happy at Wigan, it’s probably best if they go. And that wasn’t Sutton anyway. But for me, he was manifestly a fitter and therefore better player at Canberra than he was at Wigan. All that potential sent to someone else. And that rankles with me.



But hey, if he came back and was awesome, I’d happily eat my words.

Yea I don’t think Hampshires staying or going been announced yet

It won't let me quote a previous post but on Sutty - does anyone know what Wigan set his target weight at?

They don't just say to players 'go and do some gym work' they set players target weights and physical goals to achieve, maybe they wanted sutton a bit heavier than what Canberra wanted and he set himself a goal to get there in the last few months of the season so as not to start off on the back foot, maybe Wigan set his goals differently in the last part of the season, who knows I know I dont and i'm sure most on here dont either.

Maybe it’s a way to stop people buying the kit on the first day it’s released and overwhelming the printers? Think this has been the case in the past, although it did make me think the same that there could potentially be more movement.

Ryan Sutton in 2017/2018 was our best prop imo and pretty sure as I've had this discussion a few years back when the same subject cropped up, he played 95% of the games in those years.

He carried us (strangely enough in 17 along with FPN who was never as bad as some people made out) in 2017, and his form was fantastic in 2018

When, and ill stress this, he'd just turned 22!!!!

In fact he played 91 games for Wigan in his last 3 seasons with 2 x GF wins, a WCC win and a CC final.appearance when he was 20, 21 and 22!!!



He had also told the club at the end of 2016 that he would see out his contract and look for opportunities in the NRL so he didn't do what some fans criticise players for I.e. leaving mid way through a contract.



Hes been good at Canberra, and in 1 year I think you could say Very Good (i don't watch a lot of NRL so can't say too much but I don't think he's set the world on fire, just a few people surprised he's done as well as he has).

But I'm not surprised, the signs were there at Wigan but not a lot of people wanted to see it.

I'll tell you what though, I'd have had 2016/17/18 Ryan Sutton over Joe "Butter fingers lazy soft " Bullock, Tony "BFUT" Clubb and Mitch "Invisible" Clarke" any day of the week which is what we ended up with in 2019/20



He was maturing, maybe as others have said he was asked to play a different way, given wiehht targets differently or whatever



But no way on earth did he let us down in anyway or only give 80/90% before he left

This x100.



Like I said in my post, he suffers from the curse of having dared to leave Wigan. Therefore some fans have to rewrite history and, let me honest here, talk about BS/lie about them to suit narrative they want to peddle. Pathetic really.

We had discussions at the time about that weight loss and the timing of it. I think our views differed then and probably still do but where we still agree is that Sutton was a good player for us and he was a loss to the club. I don’t think we need him back now (but I’d have killed to have him back in recent years) but if we did, I wouldn’t ever rule it out. I don’t understand the ‘nobody should ever be allowed back’ stance.

Do you remember Andy Farrell at 19/20 in 1994/95 and then 96 looking like he'd lost 5 stone

A lot of that was by design, but bldyshapes can and do change.

Maybe Waney wanted him to be a stone over rather than a stone under for various reasons, maybe Canberra wanted a slightly slimmer version for various reasons.



I'm not busting a gut to go after him, I think he would be a good signing and I too am absolutely dumb struck by the view of (I'm not going to use a name calling very but I think you'll get my frustration at them) some fans who give a carte blanche "No" to resigning someone, when even provided evidence they ignore and cherry pick their version of events to back up their carte blanch No stance.



Sutton would make our starting 17 regularly and it would be others such as Mago/Byrne maybe, who would be under pressure

But we've played our cards in that department unless we can offload someone so its irrelevant

If Sutton had become available say July before the Mago resurgence of form and resigning there's only 1 I'd have been after

i think that was it

thats not what you said, you said name a player who came back who made us stronger....