Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Nov 17, 2023 3:12 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Ryan Sutton in 2017/2018 was our best prop imo and pretty sure as I've had this discussion a few years back when the same subject cropped up, he played 95% of the games in those years.
He carried us (strangely enough in 17 along with FPN who was never as bad as some people made out) in 2017, and his form was fantastic in 2018
When, and ill stress this, he'd just turned 22!!!!
In fact he played 91 games for Wigan in his last 3 seasons with 2 x GF wins, a WCC win and a CC final.appearance when he was 20, 21 and 22!!!

He had also told the club at the end of 2016 that he would see out his contract and look for opportunities in the NRL so he didn't do what some fans criticise players for I.e. leaving mid way through a contract.

Hes been good at Canberra, and in 1 year I think you could say Very Good (i don't watch a lot of NRL so can't say too much but I don't think he's set the world on fire, just a few people surprised he's done as well as he has).
But I'm not surprised, the signs were there at Wigan but not a lot of people wanted to see it.
I'll tell you what though, I'd have had 2016/17/18 Ryan Sutton over Joe "Butter fingers lazy soft booty" Bullock, Tony "BFUT" Clubb and Mitch "Invisible" Clarke" any day of the week which is what we ended up with in 2019/20

He was maturing, maybe as others have said he was asked to play a different way, given wiehht targets differently or whatever

But no way on earth did he let us down in anyway or only give 80/90% before he left

This x100.

Like I said in my post, he suffers from the curse of having dared to leave Wigan. Therefore some fans have to rewrite history and, let me honest here, talk about BS/lie about them to suit narrative they want to peddle. Pathetic really.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Nov 17, 2023 3:42 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Ryan Sutton in 2017/2018 was our best prop imo and pretty sure as I've had this discussion a few years back when the same subject cropped up, he played 95% of the games in those years.
He carried us (strangely enough in 17 along with FPN who was never as bad as some people made out) in 2017, and his form was fantastic in 2018
When, and ill stress this, he'd just turned 22!!!!
In fact he played 91 games for Wigan in his last 3 seasons with 2 x GF wins, a WCC win and a CC final.appearance when he was 20, 21 and 22!!!

He had also told the club at the end of 2016 that he would see out his contract and look for opportunities in the NRL so he didn't do what some fans criticise players for I.e. leaving mid way through a contract.

Hes been good at Canberra, and in 1 year I think you could say Very Good (i don't watch a lot of NRL so can't say too much but I don't think he's set the world on fire, just a few people surprised he's done as well as he has).
But I'm not surprised, the signs were there at Wigan but not a lot of people wanted to see it.
I'll tell you what though, I'd have had 2016/17/18 Ryan Sutton over Joe "Butter fingers lazy soft booty" Bullock, Tony "BFUT" Clubb and Mitch "Invisible" Clarke" any day of the week which is what we ended up with in 2019/20

He was maturing, maybe as others have said he was asked to play a different way, given wiehht targets differently or whatever

But no way on earth did he let us down in anyway or only give 80/90% before he left

We had discussions at the time about that weight loss and the timing of it. I think our views differed then and probably still do but where we still agree is that Sutton was a good player for us and he was a loss to the club. I don’t think we need him back now (but I’d have killed to have him back in recent years) but if we did, I wouldn’t ever rule it out. I don’t understand the ‘nobody should ever be allowed back’ stance.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Nov 17, 2023 4:15 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

We had discussions at the time about that weight loss and the timing of it. I think our views differed then and probably still do but where we still agree is that Sutton was a good player for us and he was a loss to the club. I don’t think we need him back now (but I’d have killed to have him back in recent years) but if we did, I wouldn’t ever rule it out. I don’t understand the ‘nobody should ever be allowed back’ stance.

Do you remember Andy Farrell at 19/20 in 1994/95 and then 96 looking like he'd lost 5 stone
A lot of that was by design, but bldyshapes can and do change.
Maybe Waney wanted him to be a stone over rather than a stone under for various reasons, maybe Canberra wanted a slightly slimmer version for various reasons.

I'm not busting a gut to go after him, I think he would be a good signing and I too am absolutely dumb struck by the view of (I'm not going to use a name calling very but I think you'll get my frustration at them) some fans who give a carte blanche "No" to resigning someone, when even provided evidence they ignore and cherry pick their version of events to back up their carte blanch No stance.

Sutton would make our starting 17 regularly and it would be others such as Mago/Byrne maybe, who would be under pressure
But we've played our cards in that department unless we can offload someone so its irrelevant
If Sutton had become available say July before the Mago resurgence of form and resigning there's only 1 I'd have been after

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Nov 17, 2023 4:47 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Do you remember Andy Farrell at 19/20 in 1994/95 and then 96 looking like he'd lost 5 stone
A lot of that was by design, but bldyshapes can and do change.
Maybe Waney wanted him to be a stone over rather than a stone under for various reasons, maybe Canberra wanted a slightly slimmer version for various reasons.

I'm not busting a gut to go after him, I think he would be a good signing and I too am absolutely dumb struck by the view of (I'm not going to use a name calling very but I think you'll get my frustration at them) some fans who give a carte blanche "No" to resigning someone, when even provided evidence they ignore and cherry pick their version of events to back up their carte blanch No stance.

Sutton would make our starting 17 regularly and it would be others such as Mago/Byrne maybe, who would be under pressure
But we've played our cards in that department unless we can offload someone so its irrelevant
If Sutton had become available say July before the Mago resurgence of form and resigning there's only 1 I'd have been after

i think that was it

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Nov 17, 2023 4:49 pm  

The Whiffy Kipper wrote:

None of those players came back better or stronger than before they left, some fans really do need to take their cherry and white glasses off

thats not what you said, you said name a player who came back who made us stronger....

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Nov 17, 2023 6:00 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Do you remember Andy Farrell at 19/20 in 1994/95 and then 96 looking like he'd lost 5 stone
A lot of that was by design, but bldyshapes can and do change.
Maybe Waney wanted him to be a stone over rather than a stone under for various reasons, maybe Canberra wanted a slightly slimmer version for various reasons.

I'm not busting a gut to go after him, I think he would be a good signing and I too am absolutely dumb struck by the view of (I'm not going to use a name calling very but I think you'll get my frustration at them) some fans who give a carte blanche "No" to resigning someone, when even provided evidence they ignore and cherry pick their version of events to back up their carte blanch No stance.

Sutton would make our starting 17 regularly and it would be others such as Mago/Byrne maybe, who would be under pressure
But we've played our cards in that department unless we can offload someone so its irrelevant
If Sutton had become available say July before the Mago resurgence of form and resigning there's only 1 I'd have been after

Oh aye, Faz lost a load of puppy fat around that age but I suppose the difference is that he did it at Wigan, knowing he was staying at Wigan and not a few months before a move to a new club/league. As people have said though maybe Wigan demands and Canberra’s were different. I just always felt he carried that puppy fat a little longer than he should’ve have but it’s simply a hunch and based on nothing other than personal opinion. To add a flip side to that argument, Harvie Hill looked to shed his puppy fat before last season and I actually thought that was too early. It’s not that he didn’t do really well but I just thought it limited his impact with the ball a touch. I expect he’ll start to put on some muscle going forward though now.

All a side show to the fact Sutton was a good player for Wigan. If we needed him, I’d have him back but we’re well stocked at prop (or with props who can play loose forward). I actually hope he stays in the NRL and it works out because ideally I think that’s what he wants.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Sat Nov 18, 2023 7:59 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

This x100.

Like I said in my post, he suffers from the curse of having dared to leave Wigan. Therefore some fans have to rewrite history and, let me honest here, talk about BS/lie about them to suit narrative they want to peddle. Pathetic really.

That’s certainly not where I stand, I understand the NRL is the pinnacle of the sport and Oz is a very attractive place to live, and I would in their shoes take the plunge. I also have no beef with bringing them back as I was all for Tomkins, Bateman, Burgess, Williams coming back.
I do however stand by my statement that I don’t think it was a great look for him that he left the club and got himself in much better shape and upped his game, this is 100% fact and not a BS/lie. Also I have never and don’t think anyone involved in this discussion has knocked his performances with us (I for one wanted him to stay) and saying he was better than Clarke, Bullock and Clubb is just stating the obvious. The only reason I wouldn’t take him back is that we are currently stacked at prop and I would say we are already over manned at prop, his contract still has a year to run on it though and he could be seen as a good replacement for Cooper although with the numbers we have at prop this year and another year of experience for Esah, Hill and Chan there still might not be room for him in our squad and the money might be better spent on a second rower.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:03 am  

CobraCraig wrote:

That’s certainly not where I stand, I understand the NRL is the pinnacle of the sport and Oz is a very attractive place to live, and I would in their shoes take the plunge. I also have no beef with bringing them back as I was all for Tomkins, Bateman, Burgess, Williams coming back.
I do however stand by my statement that I don’t think it was a great look for him that he left the club and got himself in much better shape and upped his game, this is 100% fact and not a BS/lie. Also I have never and don’t think anyone involved in this discussion has knocked his performances with us (I for one wanted him to stay) and saying he was better than Clarke, Bullock and Clubb is just stating the obvious. The only reason I wouldn’t take him back is that we are currently stacked at prop and I would say we are already over manned at prop, his contract still has a year to run on it though and he could be seen as a good replacement for Cooper although with the numbers we have at prop this year and another year of experience for Esah, Hill and Chan there still might not be room for him in our squad and the money might be better spent on a second rower.

I wouldn't bother. You've already made your point perfectly clearly and fairly.

There's no point engaging with people who decide they know what you really mean and run with that instead of what you actually said.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:14 am  

Post on RU site that Saracens will be using their one marquee slot on the cap for Owen Farrell.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:16 am  

stpatricks wrote:

Post on RU site that Saracens will be using their one marquee slot on the cap for Owen Farrell.

EXCLUSIVE: England rugby star Maro Itoje is offered a 50% PAY-CUT on his £800,000-a-year Saracens contract as they are forced to choose between him and Owen Farrell for 'marquee' deals - and now he could move abroad