: Fri May 29, 2009 12:55 pm  

kirkamania6 wrote:

Didn't realise you suggested split half backs. However I hate split half backs one of the points of putting Sam at full back would be to make more options in attack but playing split half backs just totally cancels that one out really.

I agree promising youngsters should get in ahead of 'average aussies' but in there best positions. One thing you didn't answer from my post was moving around players in key positions especially to less favourable positions?

We would have 3 wingers and as (I hope) you know there is only 2 wings meaning one would have to miss out. If it was Ainscough surely he would start looking elsewhere, I don't know your stance on Ainscough but imagine the uproar if we let him go. With Roberts and Pat on long term deals and not going to get released, it would either be a waste of quota, cap space or both. Can't see it happening.

I don't know if Matt would want to come to Wigan but I presume IL is over there trying to find out. Same applies that you don't know that Long would want to come to Wigan so that cancels that out ?

We do have players coming off contract yes but what I mean is say we got rid of Coley, Bailey, Phelps and Smith. Improved contracts for Ainscough and Sam would be given. Getting both Long and Myler (they would both be on a good wack) would mean there would be LESS money available for a prop which we need more than anything.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying.

Split halves can be really successful, having an attacking FB would compliment the split halves, a 1 receiver at either side of the dummy half (Long and Myler) with an attacking FB as a second receiver to either Long or Myler with another second receiver (loose forward) on the other side of the play. This would present the dummy half with lots of different options to attack with.

I've been very impressed with how Cronk and Finch are working split halves at Storm the defense is having trouble reading were the play is going.

You talking about moving players around from their less favorable positions. And you make a good point about moving Sam to FB, but remember how Wigan brought Edwards in as a FB and how he benefitted from that position, similar to how Lockyer progressed so well from FB, I believe the same structure and time at FB will help develop Sam as a thinking rugby player.

I'm a big fan of Ainscough and too would be in up roar if he were to leave, but throughout the course of the season Richards, Roberts, and Sam will undoubedly pick up knocks and need resting, having quality cover in the backs is a good thing.

None of us really know how much players are on or how much they want to come to a club, we can speculate, but never know.

: Fri May 29, 2009 1:16 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

I agree with a lot of what you're saying.

Split halves can be really successful, having an attacking FB would compliment the split halves, a 1 receiver at either side of the dummy half (Long and Myler) with an attacking FB as a second receiver to either Long or Myler with another second receiver (loose forward) on the other side of the play. This would present the dummy half with lots of different options to attack with.

I've been very impressed with how Cronk and Finch are working split halves at Storm the defense is having trouble reading were the play is going.

You talking about moving players around from their less favorable positions. And you make a good point about moving Sam to FB, but remember how Wigan brought Edwards in as a FB and how he benefitted from that position, similar to how Lockyer progressed so well from FB, I believe the same structure and time at FB will help develop Sam as a thinking rugby player.

I'm a big fan of Ainscough and too would be in up roar if he were to leave, but throughout the course of the season Richards, Roberts, and Sam will undoubedly pick up knocks and need resting, having quality cover in the backs is a good thing.

None of us really know how much players are on or how much they want to come to a club, we can speculate, but never know.

Personally I am not a fan of split half backs and would prefer to see link up from the 2 halves and the loose forward or full back if possible.

Finch has been great for Melbourne and taken a lot of pressure of Cronk but it has to be remembered that they are a top side. We have used split half backs quite a lot over the last 2 seasons with not much success.

I would rather see Roberts given a shot at full back and see if he could make it his own and bring in someone to play with Sam in the halves with a pre contract agreement for Myler or sign him and send him back on loan. This would be a lot less risky option for me. However both of our ideas seem unlikely to happen.

A move to Sam COULD turn out well for him but what if it doesn't? I would prefer a safer option of giving him a run in the halves with a quality partner who would let Sam play his own game, that is how I think we would get the best out of him.

Providing he does well enough for us for the rest of the season Ainscough should be starting winger for us next season. I just couldn't see us having him as a back up winger for the next 2 or more seasons.

We don't know how much the players are on but we do have a pretty idea of if they're a big earner or not

: Fri May 29, 2009 1:24 pm  

kirkamania6 wrote:

Personally I am not a fan of split half backs and would prefer to see link up from the 2 halves and the loose forward or full back if possible.

Finch has been great for Melbourne and taken a lot of pressure of Cronk but it has to be remembered that they are a top side. We have used split half backs quite a lot over the last 2 seasons with not much success.

I would rather see Roberts given a shot at full back and see if he could make it his own and bring in someone to play with Sam in the halves with a pre contract agreement for Myler or sign him and send him back on loan. This would be a lot less risky option for me. However both of our ideas seem unlikely to happen.

A move to Sam COULD turn out well for him but what if it doesn't? I would prefer a safer option of giving him a run in the halves with a quality partner who would let Sam play his own game, that is how I think we would get the best out of him.

Providing he does well enough for us for the rest of the season Ainscough should be starting winger for us next season. I just couldn't see us having him as a back up winger for the next 2 or more seasons.

We don't know how much the players are on but we do have a pretty idea of if they're a big earner or not

Agree 100%

: Fri May 29, 2009 1:34 pm  

kirkamania6 wrote:

Personally I am not a fan of split half backs and would prefer to see link up from the 2 halves and the loose forward or full back if possible.

Finch has been great for Melbourne and taken a lot of pressure of Cronk but it has to be remembered that they are a top side. We have used split half backs quite a lot over the last 2 seasons with not much success.

I would rather see Roberts given a shot at full back and see if he could make it his own and bring in someone to play with Sam in the halves with a pre contract agreement for Myler or sign him and send him back on loan. This would be a lot less risky option for me. However both of our ideas seem unlikely to happen.

A move to Sam COULD turn out well for him but what if it doesn't? I would prefer a safer option of giving him a run in the halves with a quality partner who would let Sam play his own game, that is how I think we would get the best out of him.

Providing he does well enough for us for the rest of the season Ainscough should be starting winger for us next season. I just couldn't see us having him as a back up winger for the next 2 or more seasons.

We don't know how much the players are on but we do have a pretty idea of if they're a big earner or not

The Ainscough situation is a tricky one. He is superb in attack, one of the best attacking wingers we've had for sometime, (the leading try scorer) back that up. It's almost like Wigan didn't count on him being as good as he is, so they bought a 28 year old Aussie winger in (Roberts when they already had wing options in Richards, Ainscough, Pryce and Phelps.

But as it stands Roberts, if you like him or not, has a 4 year contract so we're stuck with him. Ainscough has issues in defense which he needs to iron out, rotating him with Roberts and Richard for another season before he becomes the finished article might not be such a bad thing. I don't really see it as picking Roberts and Richards over him, just playing who is right for that particular game. All three have their merits.

I see the logic in putting Roberts at FB, but it didn't really work when he was played there before, hence why noble swapped him round with Richards.

If it doesn't pay off putting Sam at FB we have other options for the position, then Wigan could look to rotating Sam, Long and Myler resting players when needed and bring one off the bench. Leeds gradually developed the Burrow McGuire partnership and it's paying diver dents ever since.

I would love to see Lockyer at Wigan, a player who myself and practically everyone in RL admires, but signing Lockyer (which is unlikely anyway) has it's issues-a MASSIVE chunk of the CAP more than Long, and signing an over 30 Lockyer is only a short term solution, yes he would help develop Sam, but what when Lockyer retires? We'd be on the look for another 6 or 7, chances are we'd once again look to Myler, who by then would demand more money or would be contracted to a rival club of the likes of Wire or Saints.

I think split backs (even though I'm not a massive fan) can work and would work with two good players like Myler and Long, both great halves.

last season I'm convinced we only really played with one HB-Barrett. He controlled everything.

Before that we had Dobson but with Orr and before that Orr and Moran, Can't remember the last time we had 2 good players who played well together at 6 and 7.

: Fri May 29, 2009 1:52 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

The Ainscough situation is a tricky one. He is superb in attack, one of the best attacking wingers we've had for sometime, (the leading try scorer) back that up. It's almost like Wigan didn't count on him being as good as he is, so they bought a 28 year old Aussie winger in (Roberts when they already had wing options in Richards, Ainscough, Pryce and Phelps.

But as it stands Roberts, if you like him or not, has a 4 year contract so we're stuck with him. Ainscough has issues in defense which he needs to iron out, rotating him with Roberts and Richard for another season before he becomes the finished article might not be such a bad thing. I don't really see it as picking Roberts and Richards over him, just playing who is right for that particular game. All three have their merits.

I see the logic in putting Roberts at FB, but it didn't really work when he was played there before, hence why noble swapped him round with Richards.

If it doesn't pay off putting Sam at FB we have other options for the position, then Wigan could look to rotating Sam, Long and Myler resting players when needed and bring one off the bench. Leeds gradually developed the Burrow McGuire partnership and it's paying diver dents ever since.

I would love to see Lockyer at Wigan, a player who myself and practically everyone in RL admires, but signing Lockyer (which is unlikely anyway) has it's issues-a MASSIVE chunk of the CAP more than Long, and signing an over 30 Lockyer is only a short term solution, yes he would help develop Sam, but what when Lockyer retires? We'd be on the look for another 6 or 7, chances are we'd once again look to Myler, who by then would demand more money or would be contracted to a rival club of the likes of Wire or Saints.

I think split backs (even though I'm not a massive fan) can work and would work with two good players like Myler and Long, both great halves.

last season I'm convinced we only really played with one HB-Barrett. He controlled everything.

Before that we had Dobson but with Orr and before that Orr and Moran, Can't remember the last time we had 2 good players who played well together at 6 and 7.

I agree Roberts was an unnecessary signing but we have him for a few years now and I do like him as a player. Roberts had 2 games at full back and only had 1 game prior to that on the wing. He simply had not settled in at Wigan. Now he has settled and the weather is getting to the time where the aussies prefer it. He has good defence, seems fairly safe under the high ball, has great speed, is a very good broken field runner and can (supposedly) play stand off so surely he would be able to link with the halves well. 2 games when he's barely been in the country 5 minutes is not a fair chance at full back and he needs to be given a proper shot.

I suggested bringing a Lockyer/Orford over and buying Myler at the same time and loaning him back to Salford whilst Lockyer/Orford was with us. Yes Lockyer would command a big chunk of the cap but it wouldn't be far off what Long and Myler would be on jointly and the difference in quality would be huge. Nevertheless it is unlikely.

I've already said what I think about split halves but for me I would prefer to see Sam with somebody like Orford to lead the team around the field and let Sam be the dynamic runner and support player he is for now. Then once Sam has learnt for a couple of seasons he can only be a better all around half back

: Fri May 29, 2009 1:56 pm  

You make some good points.

However, I don't know if Salford would let us buy Myler then loan him back to them.
And I don't know if Lockyer would come. On top of that Lockyer is a 6 and so is Sam.

Maybe we'll see more of Roberts at FB in the future, however Noble seems to prefer putting Pat at FB when cover is needed, he probably feels Roberts' speed is more beneficial on the wing than at FB.

: Fri May 29, 2009 2:00 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

You make some good points.

However, I don't know if Salford would let us buy Myler then loan him back to them.
And I don't know if Lockyer would come. On top of that Lockyer is a 6 and so is Sam.

Maybe we'll see more of Roberts at FB in the future, however Noble seems to prefer putting Pat at FB when cover is needed, he probably feels Roberts' speed is more beneficial on the wing than at FB.

We also don't know if he would come in the first place or if Long would come.

Pretty sure Lockyer has said he wants to play super league, just saying that if we are looking for an experienced stop gap half back signing surely there is no-one better?

Doesn't Sam prefer to play at 7? sure its been mentioned on here before. Anyway he played there a lot for the reserves and I reckon he will end up as a 7.

I think your right about Noble preferring Roberts on the wing. Will Noble be here next season though?

: Fri May 29, 2009 2:08 pm  

kirkamania6 wrote:

We also don't know if he would come in the first place or if Long would come.

Pretty sure Lockyer has said he wants to play super league, just saying that if we are looking for an experienced stop gap half back signing surely there is no-one better?

Doesn't Sam prefer to play at 7? sure its been mentioned on here before. Anyway he played there a lot for the reserves and I reckon he will end up as a 7.

I think your right about Noble preferring Roberts on the wing. Will Noble be here next season though?

Sam seems to be a running half who pays off the back of a first receiver, he doesn't seem to dictate the play or organise like a true 7 does. This was evident against Wire, playing off Tommy (who is never a 7) gave Sam limited options to run the ball as a second receiver. Sam never really took to the game as a 7, hence why we were so lacking in creative attack with Tommy and Sam at halves.
Reminded me of the shocker we had away at Cats a few months back.

Who knows if Nobby will be here next season... maybe our big signing will be a next coach!

: Fri May 29, 2009 2:17 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

Sam seems to be a running half who pays off the back of a first receiver, he doesn't seem to dictate the play or organise like a true 7 does. This was evident against Wire, playing off Tommy (who is never a 7) gave Sam limited options to run the ball as a second receiver. Sam never really took to the game as a 7, hence why we were so lacking in creative attack with Tommy and Sam at halves.
Reminded me of the shocker we had away at Cats a few months back.

Who knows if Nobby will be here next season... maybe our big signing will be a next coach!

I'm pretty sure he will be an organiser who dictates the play in a few seasons, I think the main thing Noble has told him to do is to stick to his obvious strengths which are running and supporting play. Hence why we haven't seen much organising from him. We have seen in glimpses his kicking game and him bossing other players around. Its all a part of the development process IMO.

With Lockyer at stand off he would be the one who would lead the team around the field like he does for Brisbane now, like Trent does for Cronulla (I know there playing poorly ) and Soward does for St George.

As long as in your half backs you have 1 leader/organiser there isn't any problems

Lets not bring up that Catalans game

: Fri May 29, 2009 2:20 pm  

kirkamania6 wrote:

I'm pretty sure he will be an organiser who dictates the play in a few seasons, I think the main thing Noble has told him to do is to stick to his obvious strengths which are running and supporting play. Hence why we haven't seen much organising from him. We have seen in glimpses his kicking game and him bossing other players around. Its all a part of the development process IMO.

With Lockyer at stand off he would be the one who would lead the team around the field like he does for Brisbane now, like Trent does for Cronulla (I know there playing poorly ) and Soward does for St George.

As long as in your half backs you have 1 leader/organiser there isn't any problems

Lets not bring up that Catalans game

Slightly off topic, there is a player I'd take-Soward.