Re: Covid : Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:44 pm  

nikos wrote:

Most of the experts have said that having a low general level of covid is desirable as it reduce the risk of new strains, which is an argument for us all getting vaxxed.
That said, if you believe it’s a ploy by big pharma, Hitler is alive in Argentina, Armstrong didn’t walk on the moon, Trump won the election etc then don’t take the vaccine, but by effectively ‘opting out’, I think you should lose your rights to healthcare if you do get it.
Travel insurance providers now state in their covid cover If you’ve refused any doses of the vaccine or haven’t been able to have a dose you’ve been offered, you won’t be covered.

Maybe the same approach should be taken for the circa 30% of the population who are obese and pose a significant risk on the NHS regardless of whether Covid is here or not.

Re: Covid : Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:08 pm  

WiganRL12345 wrote:

So in summary what you are saying is that Omicron is more deadly than flu but the only reason that the data doesn’t suggest it is more deadly than flu is because people are vaccinated with two doses.

But you now need another dose to reduce your risk of catching Omicron and going into hospital becoming seriously ill as the ‘majority’ as you say are unvaccinated in these hospitals and ICU. Again, can you define unvaccinated?

I'm saying covid is more deadly than flu (because other strains do exist.)
And I do know that yes, less people are dying than would have if 40/50million hadn't had one/both are all 3 of the jabs.

WRT what I mean by unvaccinated is this, someone who has had NONE of the jabs.

The debate is more nuanced as there will be people who sit in between No jab and all 3 inc booster jabbed.
Some people who haven't had the booster may be because until very recently they weren't able.

Anyway, I can see your trying to as you and the others have been for the last 2 weeks on this thread trying to complicate the issue to distract from the simplicity of the debate.

So again

If you are fully vaccinated with 3 vaccines, like for like with a comparable person of age/health etc. Then you are safer than if you have 2, far safer than if you have had 1 and FAR FAR FAR FAR more safer than of you haven't had any.

It not that difficult to understand

Re: Covid : Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:23 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

I'm saying covid is more deadly than flu (because other strains do exist.)
And I do know that yes, less people are dying than would have if 40/50million hadn't had one/both are all 3 of the jabs.

WRT what I mean by unvaccinated is this, someone who has had NONE of the jabs.

The debate is more nuanced as there will be people who sit in between No jab and all 3 inc booster jabbed.
Some people who haven't had the booster may be because until very recently they weren't able.

Anyway, I can see your trying to as you and the others have been for the last 2 weeks on this thread trying to complicate the issue to distract from the simplicity of the debate.

So again

If you are fully vaccinated with 3 vaccines, like for like with a comparable person of age/health etc. Then you are safer than if you have 2, far safer than if you have had 1 and FAR FAR FAR FAR more safer than of you haven't had any.

It not that difficult to understand

Not trying to complicate just don’t see how you can say and or prove that without facts and the facts aren’t available due to the comparisons not being the same.

Out of interest in your opinion at what point does this stop as in how many more boosters do you think will be needed?

Re: Covid : Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:47 pm  

WiganRL12345 wrote:

Not trying to complicate just don’t see how you can say and or prove that without facts and the facts aren’t available due to the comparisons not being the same.

Out of interest in your opinion at what point does this stop as in how many more boosters do you think will be needed?

Point no1 - Based on that analogy then you can never make any statistical analysis of any medical issue as no 2 people or circumstances are the same
The statistics/analysis is based on Numbers - and If based on numbers there are 10 x times more people Partially or fully vaccinated than unvaccinated and the Vaccine doesn't help then there should be 10 x times the number of vaccinated in ICU/Dying - There aren't
I haven't fully researched (Not that it would matter as much as I am neither a Medical expert, Scientific expert or Expert data analyst) but I have recently been pointed in the direction of a guy who Debunks people throwing around untrue statistical nonsense of FB - From what I have read he seems spot on however one of the key points he makes lately, and it is something I have previously said to my family & friends on this subject, is that it takes 10mins to someone to write 5 things that are absolute rubbish on FB/Twitter etc. and it takes him 10 hours to prove 1 of those things wrong & complete rubbish. By which time 10million people have seen it and same said person and Hundreds of others have wrote hundreds more bits of Rubbish.
Zack Berman BTW

Point No2 - I don't know - I'm not an expert
But a bit like when WW2 was on and the Germans were bombing I won't open my curtains just because I don't agree with the war, Don't like Churchill, Don't like the bloke next door who is off fighting the war, Won't listen to the fellow in the local pub who's making his own facts up etc. or I'm just peed off because "I don't know how long this is going to last".
I'll use a bit of common sense and if what I am being asked and statistically/Logically and with a bit of common sense I agree with it I'll do my bit to help myself, my family and others.
If the family (He/She) next door keep there's on that's up to them, but he shouldn't be surprised if he gets a mouthful back when he does or when they try to convince others that leaving that light on is the best thing to do

[Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy]

Re: Covid : Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:45 pm  

For those who like facts, these figures have come out today from the Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre.

Basically if you don't fancy your chances of going infection - hospital - ICU - morgue, get vaccinated.

Re: Covid : Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:54 pm  

like I said earlier my sister is a nurse on ICU, when I spoke to her last EVERY covid admission was unvaxed and varied in age and conditions, people in their 30's with no condition are still dying from covid, thats a fact

Re: Covid : Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:47 pm  

Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy wrote:

For those who like facts, these figures have come out today from the Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre.

Basically if you don't fancy your chances of going infection - hospital - ICU - morgue, get vaccinated.

Thank You


And that's all that we have been trying to say

If someone doesn't want it good luck, I don't agree, and I don't like how it COULD affect others however it's something I don't believe should be forced

But for anyone to say "We don't know what's in it" or "It's killing more than it's saving" or "More people are getting Covid because they are vaxxed than Unvaccinated (I know I had this one thrown at me today!) is living in cuckoo land.

Re: Covid : Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:58 pm  

Pieman wrote:

like I said earlier my sister is a nurse on ICU, when I spoke to her last EVERY covid admission was unvaxed and varied in age and conditions, people in their 30's with no condition are still dying from covid, thats a fact

Another poster on the forum has a partner who works on the ward as you say above.
Their experience is exactly the same and weirdly enough said the same thing about people in their 30s/40s dying from it.
But Hey, what do they know

Re: Covid : Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:19 pm  

Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy wrote:

For those who like facts, these figures have come out today from the Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre.

Basically if you don't fancy your chances of going infection - hospital - ICU - morgue, get vaccinated.

But but I saw a guy on YouTube and he said that’s rubbish

**Insert copy and pasted text from said YouTube nutter**

Add a word like ‘interesting’ at the end


That’s it, I’ve finished my response template and I’m ready to tackle all future factual statistics posted.

Re: Covid : Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:26 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Thank You


And that's all that we have been trying to say

If someone doesn't want it good luck, I don't agree, and I don't like how it COULD affect others however it's something I don't believe should be forced

But for anyone to say "We don't know what's in it" or "It's killing more than it's saving" or "More people are getting Covid because they are vaxxed than Unvaccinated (I know I had this one thrown at me today!) is living in cuckoo land.

The old favourite is ‘there’s an awful lot of sports people taking ill or dropping dead since the vaccine was introduced’.

Aye, let’s just ignore the illness the vaccine has been introduced to tackle. The illness that has not only killed millions worldwide but is leaving many people with long term health problems.