Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:57 am  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

Quite shocked at this. I thought territorially we battered you personally and said this on here after the game. In terms of metres made on the day we were over 400m more than you for example (despite you scoring from two long range breaks from Field and french too). We also made more carries and you made more tackles. So in terms of both possession and territory we were on top. You were forever finishing sets in your own half. We were camped in your half for the start of the game but I don't recall us being under the pump on our line for long spells.

What you do have though is that "X-factor" that we don't have. In Field and French you have players who can literally score from anywhere on the field and they've proven that time and again (including at Magic).

I think games between the two sides will follow similar patterns for the time being. We will get on top in the middle and win the field position battle and try and pick off our chances when they come. Whereas Wigan will almost accept they will get less field position but they'll know they can burn us from anywhere on the field.

It's a real contrasting battle of styles and it could go either way when we meet up again.

That's exactly what I am saying, Wigan were really poor, particularly in the first half. The amount of times they produced unforced errors and gave the initiative to Saints in the first half was astounding. But Saints ultimately did nothing with it.

What I mean by looking the better team is when we got into your half, we looked dangerous every set whereas Saints didn't look like scoring. What I would ask you is, how do you think it would have gone had Wigan had the amount of territory and possession that Saints had? I personally think game over by half time.

In big, one-off games territory and possession are usually split fairly even. I think myself and Wigan fans are optimistic that if we get a fair share of ball and complete sets in a big game, we have a great chance.

PS, YG it would be great if you could point me in the direction of the game stats, would love to look at these..

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:58 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

You know I respect you as a poster
Stu but that is utter garbage. The most Saints-centric post you ever put on here. You had a 10 minute spell in the semi. The rest of the game was either even or comfortably ours. Go and watch it again and take your RedVee specs off. Magic you only won because of the sending off. Don't point to you beating Huddersfield as some mitigation that wasn't the case as that's a completely different game. You were 2 minutes from losing that game and never lead throughout. Good Friday I'll give you.

I feel we would have won the Magic game anyway as we were piling the pressure on for the last 15 mins and you looked gassed. The breakaway try was scored down our left after Sironen went off with a head knock (you know the one that he milked, that one)

If Wigan are being held up as a better team due to winning the CC Final, then I can point out that you were less than 4 mins away from losing that one. Even if I gave you 70 mins out of 80 for the CC semi (which is ridiculous) we still come out as more dominant overall across all 3 games.

We did lead that game too. 2-0

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:59 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Makinson has played more games than French
Dodd has played more games than Leuluai
Hopoate and Percival have played more games than Thornley
Matautia has played more games than Pearce-Paul

Dont quote facts they cant handle it only opinions will do

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:04 am  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

Quite shocked at this. I thought territorially we battered you personally and said this on here after the game. In terms of metres made on the day we were over 400m more than you for example (despite you scoring from two long range breaks from Field and french too). We also made more carries and you made more tackles. So in terms of both possession and territory we were on top. You were forever finishing sets in your own half. We were camped in your half for the start of the game but I don't recall us being under the pump on our line for long spells.

What you do have though is that "X-factor" that we don't have. In Field and French you have players who can literally score from anywhere on the field and they've proven that time and again (including at Magic).

I think games between the two sides will follow similar patterns for the time being. We will get on top in the middle and win the field position battle and try and pick off our chances when they come. Whereas Wigan will almost accept they will get less field position but they'll know they can burn us from anywhere on the field.

It's a real contrasting battle of styles and it could go either way when we meet up again.

Just one question YG: I know it's 4 points for a try and 2 for a conversion but remind me how many points you get for most territory as I can't find reference to it anywhere.

At magic, you played your way, we played ours. Until we went down to 12 men you never lead the contest. Were we the better team? Well we didn't play at our best so I'll say possibly not but don't point to the things you do better as if they're the only things that determine a game. We were beating you for the vast majority of that match and I'd argue would have won the match had we not gone down to 12. Opinion, I grant you, but the fact you never lead despite all the points you got for your massive territorial advantage (sic) suggests that it's at the very least a reasonable opinion.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:04 am  

Stu M wrote:

I feel we would have won the Magic game anyway as we were piling the pressure on for the last 15 mins and you looked gassed. The breakaway try was scored down our left after Sironen went off with a head knock (you know the one that he milked, that one)

If Wigan are being held up as a better team due to winning the CC Final, then I can point out that you were less than 4 mins away from losing that one. Even if I gave you 70 mins out of 80 for the CC semi (which is ridiculous) we still come out as more dominant overall across all 3 games.

We did lead that game too. 2-0

you had us under pressure for the first 20 mins but couldnt score,you can give us anything you want,breakdown of play,injuries to all of your strike players,dominant minutes etc (all opinions of course) but it still stands we are having a more successful season so far what with us being the CC holders.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:06 am  

LewCharnock wrote: That's exactly what I am saying, Wigan were really poor, particularly in the first half. The amount of times they produced unforced errors and gave the initiative to Saints in the first half was astounding. But Saints ultimately did nothing with it. What I mean by looking the better team is when we got into your half, we looked dangerous every set whereas Saints didn't look like scoring. What I would ask you is, how do you think it would have gone had Wigan had the amount of territory and possession that Saints had? I personally think game over by half time. In big, one-off games territory and possession are usually split fairly even. I think myself and Wigan fans are optimistic that if we get a fair share of ball and complete sets in a big game, we have a great chance. PS, YG it would be great if you could point me in the direction of the game stats, would love to look at these.. I answered this exact question the day after the game mate and said that had Wigan had the same possession and position we had, you would score more points. But my point is you didn't. This is what I said in the magic game thread on here: I actually think Wigan are the more ruthless of the two sides. We were on top for 25 mins but did nothing with it then you got one chance and scored. Give Wigan the same amount of ball as saints and they score fair more points than us. But ultimately we beat you up In the middle and got more chances. I have no doubt Wigan are more ruthless in attack than we are in terms of chances:points ratio but we give ourselves more chances by getting on top territorially and having more possession. I think that's fair? Stats here mate....https://www.superleague.co.uk/match-centre/report/3572

LewCharnock wrote: That's exactly what I am saying, Wigan were really poor, particularly in the first half. The amount of times they produced unforced errors and gave the initiative to Saints in the first half was astounding. But Saints ultimately did nothing with it. What I mean by looking the better team is when we got into your half, we looked dangerous every set whereas Saints didn't look like scoring. What I would ask you is, how do you think it would have gone had Wigan had the amount of territory and possession that Saints had? I personally think game over by half time. In big, one-off games territory and possession are usually split fairly even. I think myself and Wigan fans are optimistic that if we get a fair share of ball and complete sets in a big game, we have a great chance. PS, YG it would be great if you could point me in the direction of the game stats, would love to look at these.. I answered this exact question the day after the game mate and said that had Wigan had the same possession and position we had, you would score more points. But my point is you didn't. This is what I said in the magic game thread on here: I actually think Wigan are the more ruthless of the two sides. We were on top for 25 mins but did nothing with it then you got one chance and scored. Give Wigan the same amount of ball as saints and they score fair more points than us. But ultimately we beat you up In the middle and got more chances. I have no doubt Wigan are more ruthless in attack than we are in terms of chances:points ratio but we give ourselves more chances by getting on top territorially and having more possession. I think that's fair? Stats here mate....https://www.superleague.co.uk/match-centre/report/3572

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:07 am  

Jason65 wrote:

I agree we have had a better season so far this must mean we are a better team so far,you won the first derby easily enough but you lost the first game game that really would mean anything then you won the last derby in the last seconds I would say we are better this season so far as you have agreed we are having a better season so far.

No. You have had a better season so far. You haven't been the better team so far. There is a difference. But this is one of those that could drag on so we can agree to disagree on it.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:08 am  

Stu M wrote:

I feel we would have won the Magic game anyway as we were piling the pressure on for the last 15 mins and you looked gassed. The breakaway try was scored down our left after Sironen went off with a head knock (you know the one that he milked, that one)

If Wigan are being held up as a better team due to winning the CC Final, then I can point out that you were less than 4 mins away from losing that one. Even if I gave you 70 mins out of 80 for the CC semi (which is ridiculous) we still come out as more dominant overall across all 3 games.

We did lead that game too. 2-0

If ever anything proved a point it's that last statement. All that advantage and yet the only points scored were from a penalty kick. Says it all really although I will admit you're technically right

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:10 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

Just one question YG: I know it's 4 points for a try and 2 for a conversion but remind me how many points you get for most territory as I can't find reference to it anywhere.

At magic, you played your way, we played ours. Until we went down to 12 men you never lead the contest. Were we the better team? Well we didn't play at our best so I'll say possibly not but don't point to the things you do better as if they're the only things that determine a game. We were beating you for the vast majority of that match and I'd argue would have won the match had we not gone down to 12. Opinion, I grant you, but the fact you never lead despite all the points you got for your massive territorial advantage (sic) suggests that it's at the very least a reasonable opinion.

I was directly answering someone who mentioned possession and territory and said they thought Wigan were on top. I didn't mention points, so your sarcastic question is a bit needless really mate. So is that really annoying thing you do of putting words in my mouth. I never claimed that possession and territory determine a game. I actually was very complimentary about wigan and said they can hurt you from anywhere and it's a battle of contrasting styles. I literally never claimed or even insinuated that possession and territory is the be all and end all. You talk about having grown up discussion so let's do that

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:13 am  

I just hope that you give us a chance the next time we play. Given that you have dominated the last two games we have played, all the strike you have and now Cooper to add to the pack, I'm hoping we can at least give you a game and make the scoreline respectable.

I'm off to lump on Wigan winnning the Grand Final. Seems like its a licence to print money.