Re: O/T Saints : Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:41 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

Aye but it's better than doing some work

Final word I'd give on it would be to say I think Welsby could become the best in the league if he moves to stand off but not at fullback. A couple of weaknesses are being exposed in that position that wouldn't be at stand off and a move to 6 would play to his strengths.

Agree fully on the work point

I’m currently off sick after I had a knee op last Thursday. I can’t drive yet or go to the gym or anywhere really so I’m sat at home bored if I’m honest.

This has been a welcome distraction this morning!

Re: O/T Saints : Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:44 am  

Stu M wrote:

Agree fully on the work point

I’m currently off sick after I had a knee op last Thursday. I can’t drive yet or go to the gym or anywhere really so I’m sat at home bored if I’m honest.

This has been a welcome distraction this morning!

Anything that passes the day then. Hope you're on the mend soon pal

Re: O/T Saints : Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:20 pm  

Stu M wrote:

Agree fully on the work point

I’m currently off sick after I had a knee op last Thursday. I can’t drive yet or go to the gym or anywhere really so I’m sat at home bored if I’m honest.

This has been a welcome distraction this morning!

Thought so
The pain killers have obviously hindered your judgement

Re: O/T Saints : Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:24 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Thought so
The pain killers have obviously hindered your judgement

Re: O/T Saints : Tue Sep 12, 2023 12:15 pm  

Just catching up on this post - some very good points , and some very good comedy p8ssed posts too - all very entertaining.

Re Welsby. Top player. Top 5. Standout best in league - no , unless you're a Saints fan. His competitiveness and willingness to chase lost causes is one of his main advantages over many. Doesn't have the stand out brilliance of French or Field but has a knack all good players have of seeming to be involved at key moments.

Field v Welsby comparison is a good one. On many counts Field has gone under the radar a little Hamstring injury ruled him out for 2 months. Took almost 2 more months to look comfortable stretching his legs. He hasn't scored many of the spectacular tries he did last season, but his assists are high and very consistent, he plays a very selfless role to make space for others even when he doesn't touch the ball, something I don't think Welsby has anywhere near same type of impact. There's no way of including this in any stats, but take a look at Faz or Wardle scoring out wide and Field is almost always an option at the back causing a misread. Only downside to Field - and the reason he's not back in the NRL is his lack of size.

In terms of Saints GF hopes - they are still the team to beat, but primarily that's down to their line speed in the opposition half (ability to not get penalised for offside.. and commitment to aggressive defence. Much will depend on the fitness of respective forward packs over the next month...........

Re: O/T Saints : Tue Sep 12, 2023 12:59 pm  

It's just a newer version of the same arguments we've always had. Who's better KFC or Newton, Faz or Scully, Radders or Wellens.

Just to confirm, all three Wigan players were better.

Re: O/T Saints : Tue Sep 12, 2023 3:08 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

It's just a newer version of the same arguments we've always had. Who's better KFC or Newton, Faz or Scully, Radders or Wellens.

Just to confirm, all three Wigan players were better.

As much as I loved Tez I think KFC was probably just ahead of him.

2 out of 3 ain’t bad though.

Re: O/T Saints : Tue Sep 12, 2023 3:15 pm  

jonh wrote:

As much as I loved Tez I think KFC was probably just ahead of him.

2 out of 3 ain’t bad though.

When a Wigan fan says “just ahead” you can be sure KC was a country mile ahead

Which he quite obviously was. Other two are genuine discussions, KC Vs Newton isn’t even a debate.

Just like Renouf was no Percival.

Re: O/T Saints : Tue Sep 12, 2023 3:25 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

When a Wigan fan says “just ahead” you can be sure KC was a country mile ahead

Which he quite obviously was. Other two are genuine discussions, KC Vs Newton isn’t even a debate.

Just like Renouf was no Percival.

Nah, Newton was a far superior to KFC.

One actually wanted to play for GB (when it meant something) Vs KFC faking another injury.

Probably one of the most over hyped players of all time.

Re: O/T Saints : Tue Sep 12, 2023 3:27 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

It was last season the Hull game yeah and French has played only a handful of games on the wing this season. I'd be interested to see if Welsby would score loads of trys on that Saints left wing btw. If it's that easy to score from the wing, i'm not sure why Tee Ritson has only 2 trys.

I've said that the stats don't tell you everything, so I agree with that but there is also no way that we can use NRL clubs wanting Welsby more than French or Field as a yardstick either. Who are these clubs that want Welsby? how do we know clubs don't want Field/French? what money are they offering? What is Welsby on now, in comparison to Field/French? None of us know the answers, so that doesn't stack up either.

As you say most people wouldn't swap given the chance but I just can't understand how anybody could be confident enough to say 'Welsby is the best' without having no quantifiable way of backing that up. I'd have him in the top 5 players in the league and probably wouldn't say there is a single player who is out and out the best but I could statistically back up French (and Field) outperforming Welsby this season. The comparison with Field is the most interesting to me, as both play at fullback. If you score comfortably more trys per game (0.74 per game vs 0.4 per game), assist pretty much the same (1 per game vs 1.04 per game) and you are better in defence, I certainly couldn't say you're a lesser player than your opposite number but maybe I'm missing something. I think we could have a different conversation if Welsby moved to what I think is his position at stand off (as pointed out by Jukesays).

I’m aware that Welsby isn’t the best defensive fullback, but I must have missed Field becoming one? Pretty much every time I’ve watched him he’s been pretty abysmal in defence on the whole