Re: Nobby doubters : Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:21 pm  

jonh wrote:

Do you feel that Bradford were in a stronger position when he arrived or when he left?

It's hard to judge that, we were certainly no great shakes at the end of 2000, when Elliott left. At the start of the 2006 season the team Noble had put together were doing fairly well, indeed they had just won at Headingley, had won the WCC and were reigning SL champions. Obviously the squad were weaker than the one that finished 2005, but the signs were there that Noble was able to get the best out of them, and they certainly performed better under him than they did once McNamara took charge.

At Bradford Chris Caisley had very little time for youth development and he seemed to think that the club could be continually successful by bringing players in, which is outdated thinking in these salary-capped times. While there is no doubt that Noble is more comfortable using, and getting the best out of, more proven players he cannot really be blamed for the fact that, when finances started to bite, youth development was way down on the list of priorities for the board at the time.

: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:27 pm  

The problem with the anti-Noble brigade is they can't use facts to back up their argument because they don't have any, only hypotheticals and far-stretched opinions.

They try to mar his time at Bradford despite him being their most successful coach by saying he left them in a worse shape than when he took over. Bradford were suffering financially towards the end of Noble's reign and yet they were still champions and world club champions when he left.

They also argue all the hard work had been done for him by Elliott and Smith. Surely if he was such a bad coach he wouldn't have been able to continue and better Bradford's success over a five year spell.

With regards GB he took over when two massive names could no longer play for him in Farrell and Sculthorpe. Any GB manager would struggle with two massive voids in the team like that. Yet still I think his time as GB coach has been vindicated by that shambles in Australia (by presumably one of these "numerous australian coaches" whom some want to replace him with).

At Wigan he took over a club in turmoil with a massively unstructured wage bill. Not only did he pull us clear from relegation (again the anti-Noble brigade use the "any coach could have" line, funny this any coach has managed to be that coach both at Bradford and Wigan) he has managed to stabilise the club and provide a more balanced squad were we now have more competition for places.

I agree the next step is to take us to the next level now that the club has been stabilised but taking us to the next level isn't as easy as that. The next level is Saints and Leeds and their playing prowess is still far superior to ours.

I don't agree with every decision Noble makes when it comes to player selection but at this moment in time I don't think there is anyone out there who could do a better job.

The people calling for Edwards/Hanley/numerous australian coaches now will be the first in line calling for their heads two years down the line when we still haven't won anything.

Take it from me as a Spurs fan. Changing your coach every two or three seasons doesn't work. You may get better performances/results in the first 6 months but you end up going round in a circle back to where you started.

Patience is a virtue. I just hope the Wigan board have it.

: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:46 pm  

Orrell Lad wrote:

What a stupid statement

But true.

[Bullseye]

: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:46 pm  

Noble was the most successful coach that we've ever had at Bradford. His record of getting to finals and winning trophies speaks for itself.

The old adage goes that players win you games and coaches lose you games. I guess that seems to be thinking on here amongst those who say that Wigan win in spite of Noble rather than it having anything to do with him.

Of course the Bulls weren't in as strong a position in 2006 as they were in 2001 but I think it's unfair to pin that all on Noble. Finances were the bigger factor and remain the case.

If I were a Wigan fan I'd be wary of bringing in yet another new coach unless we're talking about a serious candidate with a proven up to date record in RL. So that even rules out idols like Edwards and Hanley.

: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:40 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

If I were a Wigan fan I'd be wary of bringing in yet another new coach unless we're talking about a serious candidate with a proven up to date record in RL.

Same here.

If Nobby wins no silverware with us at least he will win one thing, Wigan RL manager long service award

: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:45 pm  

I'm sure if someone with undeniable talent came through, they'd get their chance in the 1st team. Playing kids just for the sake of it doesn't benefit anyone. I'm sure if there was a new Jason Robinson or Andy Farrell coming through, he'd get his chance.

They need to be picked on merit, not as a token gesture.

Re: Nobby doubters : Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:50 pm  

jonh wrote:

I agree but it is a fact when he left they were on a downer and one which was not going to get better any time soon, in fact the Bulls like us this year some would claim are putting wrong the rights of previous coaches.

If the decline of a club is long term when a coach leaves then they have failed in my opinion, Wasps i do not think (also not sure and cba checking) the dominant force they became under the coaching of Edwards.

Again Jonh both points apply to Noble. Bradford where not (despite the spin put out by certain posters on here) the dominant force they became under Noble when he took over. In fact IIRC they hadn't won anything for a couple of years. They went on to contest the next 5 consecutive Grand Finals under his stewardship and won all the major trophies! The downward spiral theory is a red herring as far as I'm concerned as we can only guess as to whether he would have turned it round or not...just the same as we are guessing that Edwards will.

As for the part in bold, equally many would not. It is purely opinion and conjecture. The only real measure of his success during his time at Bradford was their performances while he was there and that record is exemplary; even to the point of winning one SL title with a record points tally! I refer you to the mass outpouring of 'please stay Nobby' sentiments that accompanied his last game in charge if you want to get a real 'overall' reflection of the Bradford fans opinion of him rather than that of a few outspoken loadmouths who populate these and other forums!

: Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:04 pm  

Cadoo! wrote:

But true.

I doubt Noble was ar$ed while he was stockpiling the pots at Bradford

: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:01 pm  

If a coach doesn't win things instantly or the next season then there are always idiots who want them out despite the bigger picture. People who would rather bring in unproven candidates simply because they were once legends on the playing field.

Then when the board buckles under the pressure yet again and the new coach starts buying new players and tries to create a squad that is their's, the same idiots moan about the squad not knowing each other, not being settled, and then start all over again by starting rumours about the players revolting in the dressing room and the coach having no respect.

Will they ever learn, I doubt it.

[DaveO]

Re: Nobby doubters : Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:35 pm  

XBrettKennyX wrote:

If I look at his record

Not only did he save Wigan RL from relegation, he also steered us to 3rd, twice in a row- a position arguably far in excess of what our squad would normally have merited.

Whenever anyone points to statistics such as Hansen missing fewer tackles on average than Lockers a queue forms to rubbish the statistics. All you are doing here is quoting statistics and if instead of looking at his record you watched the way the team has played for the last two years there is plenty to complain about.

The stats alone give a totally false picture of his coaching while at Wigan. The two third places boiled down to winning a couple of play off games arguably because the players (and Barrett in particular) threw Nobbies usual game plan out of the window, but being unable to go one stage further and get to the GF. You have been hoodwinked by the format of the competition that means it all boils down to a few games at the end of the season. It is in effect just a contrived knock-out competition and the fact we finished third says a lot more about the low standards in the competition in general IMO that it does about Nobles coaching ability.

Unfortunately what has gone before the play offs in both 2007 and 2008 was at times some of the worst RL I have a Wigan side play in over 20 years and I deny you or anyone else to deny that has been the case. The regular season has been down right boring to watch in all but a handful of games and that is being kind.

Add to that concerns about his selection policy and how he will bring on the younger players there are IMO a lot of questions waiting to be answered which ought to decide if he gets a new deal here at the end of this season.

What on earth does this guy have to do to convince some people?

I would have thought this was obvious but since you asked:

Get the team playing as a team rather than one man rugby.
Have some different tactics other than five drives and a kick.
Bring the young players into the first team when the chance arises (tomorrow would have been an ideal opportunity but he failed to take it).
Stop with the stupid selections like the one he has made for tomorrow.

If he does all this then we might actually see some decent RL at Wigan and he might stand a chance of getting a new deal.

If he doesn't then we will have a repeat of 2008 where we actually went backwards from 2007 and if that happens he has got to go.

There was nobody more pleased than me when Noble took over from Millward and the atmosphere when he first walked out onto the JJB pitch was electric. Unfortunately saving us from relegation in 2006 is highly likely to be all he will be remembered for at Wigan if there are not big changes to the way we have played over the last two seasons in 2009 IMO.

Dave