Re: Catalans (h) : Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:38 am  

Well, my prediction from before the game couldn't have been any worse

Completely out-enthused last night and dominated by a stronger pack. Micky Mac was awesome for them and really got stuck into us. We struggled to live with them for most of the game, the only period where i feel we truly competed with them was when Mago was on who probably had one of his best stints for us.

I am probably going to have a different opinion to other here, but on a whole i don't think there was a lack of effort, just a clear class difference in the pack which with the weather as a factor meant we was on a hiding to nothing for most of the night. Combine that with poor passes that were not finding there mark (it would be easy to blame the weather on this, and while it was a factor it has been an issue for us in every game so far this season imo. Combinations are not working and our Hooker / Halfbacks are not supplying accurate passes which slows everything down, this really needs looking into by the coaching staff imo), killing ourselves with poor dicipline especially when our backs are against the wall, Catalan getting away with holding us down for longer then should be allowed for most of the match and some coach-killing errors even given the conditions (kicking out on the full once is a forgivable error, twice is unacceptable). Our right side is also a major issue, something is not clicking over there and it needs addressing, Isa still looks like our best option at second row for now, but that is saying something.

The decision to go for the 2 when we had Catalan on the ropes was shocking and from what i saw at the game, the blame for that falls solely on the coaching staff. Powell was signalling back to the bench to keep up the momentum, but must have been over-ruled by somebody, a try there could have been a real game changer and it looked likely but instead be chose to give up all pressure we had finally worked to build. Pure insanity.

The forwards is an obvious issue, and while Cust, FIeld and Smith were given no room to work with all night, this is clearly a weak point of ours that needs addressing, Hull KR did the same thing and it was very effective against us. Teams know that if they get up in our ball players faces, that we crack and become ineffective. I full expect it to happen quite a few more times this season and Saints would annihalate us at present, Catalan were even doing it to smithies last night and plays were dying before they even got started.

If i am honest, i am not sure what can be done about our forward pack atm, i think it is time to bring Byrne back in with the orders to get stuck in and get abit of aggression and dog into the team from the start of the game.

I am also open to some changes to the back line, the current combinations are not working and we are easily countered with aggressive defence. I would also like to bring French into the game by pulling him into fullback, because at the moment with our right side how it is he isn't doing much. May as well be Miski stood out there, who i don't mine btw i think his performances last season improved the more he played. Also willing to try Cust at hooker for a full game, he played well there in the NRL (although he also played well at stand off) and Forber is too young and inexperienced to drop into this pack with how performances are going atm.

If we are going to try mixing the team and combination up, now is the time to do it while the season is still young. I would maybe look at bringing Forber in vs. Leigh in a few weeks and see how he goes. No overreactions from me yet, but some changes or notable differences in clinicalness would be welcomed.

Re: Catalans (h) : Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:51 am  

From the outside your pack looks very lightweight and all too similar to each other. Reminds me a bit of ours (Wire) last season. Think you’ll have a decent season but will struggle against larger packs unless the conditions are particularly favourable.

Re: Catalans (h) : Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:59 am  

I don't think the pack did as bad as people are making out really. We had plenty of opportunities and territory to win that game last night, it was our backs that lost it for us. Poor passing, lack of organisation and inability to create any sort of overlap. Catalans played it simple, which is exactly what i thought we would do so its a disappointing result. Going for the 2 really lost our momentum, it was an absolute pathetic call and we deserved to lose for taking it.

My biggest worry is Powell, he's been a great servant to the club and its one thing being loyal to players who are Wigan through and through but its ultimately hampering the teams performance. Peet needs to be brave enough to make that call to drop him.

Re: Catalans (h) : Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:09 am  

Captain Hook wrote:

From the outside your pack looks very lightweight and all too similar to each other. Reminds me a bit of ours (Wire) last season. Think you’ll have a decent season but will struggle against larger packs unless the conditions are particularly favourable.

Apart from Mago and KPP our pack is identical in style and the way they play.

We lack a dominant prop. I do think Ellis could be one to step into that role but he hardly seems to get game time.

Mago went well last night simply because he offers something different, he’s a big target in defence against a mobile 9 though.

Our secondrow is a major issue, letting Bateman go without a replacement lined up (I appreciate that would be almost impossible given the short notice) is proving to be a huge error and something we need to rectify mid season.

KPP’s attitude is terrible. He looks like he wants gone now and for the level of contribution he is offering we may as well let him go. I’d seriously rather run with Nsemba than him at the moment. Can he turn it around? Obviously he’s clearly a talent but he needs a significant attitude adjustment.

Looking at it there will be whole sale changes to the team for 2024 but I simply am not willing to write off 2023 so Peet on the coaching front and Rads on the recruitment front need to really get to work.

Re: Catalans (h) : Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:12 am  

jonh wrote:

I’d be looking to start with Powell and introduce Cust off the bench.

To be honest I’ve never understood the need for something different off the bench re the hooking role. A decent hooker should have the skill sets to mix his play. If he can’t then he probably isn’t good enough.
If Cust is a better hooker than Powell then he should start and do the 80 minutes. If Powell is too slow and predictable then for presumably 50 per cent of the game we will play as we have done so far this season.
The other problem for me is that if we put Cust at 9 then Field will have to play at 6 and for me he isn’t a 6 of any description.

Re: Catalans (h) : Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:17 am  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

To be honest I’ve never understood the need for something different off the bench re the hooking role. A decent hooker should have the skill sets to mix his play. If he can’t then he probably isn’t good enough.
If Cust is a better hooker than Powell then he should start and do the 80 minutes. If Powell is too slow and predictable then for presumably 50 per cent of the game we will play as we have done so far this season.
The other problem for me is that if we put Cust at 9 then Field will have to play at 6 and for me he isn’t a 6 of any description.

I think Powell is strong defensively but his delivery/attack is average. Cust is the opposite so it gives the defence a new problem to think about.

I understand what you are saying about Field but he looked by far our most dangerous half last night when he moved there and French looked much more involved when he moved to 1.

Re: Catalans (h) : Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:22 am  

Stu M wrote:

I never thought I'd be defending Wigan on a Wigan forum but there seems to be a bit of an over-reaction here. I didn't see any of the game last night as I was at Utd but I have to say I was surprised when I saw the score after the game.

However, you have lost away against HKR which was always going to be a tough game at any point of the season never mind their opening game. You've then followed up with a 96-0 aggregate score over two games. To keep any SL team scoreless is a great achievement regardless of how bad they were.

Catalan are a funny team and last night their good side obviously showed up. Was probably the worst conditions possible for a team with a pack as light as yours, it would've suited Catalans much better.

Talk of a defeat against Hudds is surprising, I think you'll go there and win.

I still see Wigan as our main challengers (and to be fair I think Warrington will challenge properly this year)

Think you might be judging based on the fact they are ‘Wigan’ and bound to be good. They are generally pretty balanced on here, so sounds a genuinely poor Wigan team…..
Bar Field and French in good weather, I’m inclined to agree….

Re: Catalans (h) : Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:38 am  

jonh wrote:

I think Powell is strong defensively but his delivery/attack is average. Cust is the opposite so it gives the defence a new problem to think about.

I understand what you are saying about Field but he looked by far our most dangerous half last night when he moved there and French looked much more involved when he moved to 1.

I’ve assumed over the years that we play Powell for his defensive qualities and that we sacrifice his potential attacking qualities to ensure a steady and repetitive passing game to enable us to move the ball through the backs.
Our passing at the moment is clunky to woeful and if Cust improves the speed and accuracy from ptb I’m not sure that Field is the answer to make the best use of that.
For me Forber with his youthful enthusiasm and his high tempo would give us more options.

Having said all that the problem comes back to an ineffective pack that are easily dominated.

Re: Catalans (h) : Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:59 am  

Our poor play aside, I thought we got very unlucky on a couple of occasions with some attacking kicks - particularly the excellent high bomb from Smith. If the ball had bounced anywhere but against the post then we would have likely scored.

Re: Catalans (h) : Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:21 am  

Powell seemed to get better under Lam, but has now gone back to the average player he was before