: Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:27 pm  

Renegade wrote:

Would it not be better for Wigan to form a much stronger backroom staff to support Noble rather than completely criticise him?

I can see the point 'jonh' is making but for me Noble is a good coach who has certain faults. If we had a more effective backroom then perhaps we could find a solid partnership in which the players respect and perform well for.

Brian Noble & Ellery Hanley in some capacity at the club could help us move forward.

It was well documented that Carlos Queiroz was a major motivator for Manchester United during their successes in the Premiership last season despite United having Sir Alex Ferguson as manager so the importance of an effective backroom is integral to winning trophies in football and I would assume it is the same principle in any sport, including Rugby League.

I'm not criticising our current staff as I'm sure they do a good job and give hundred percent, but seeing as coaches do not count on the salary cap and as our team is supposedly a team that can challenge for honours this is the most logical step for me IMO.

wouldnt happen

Ellery would want 100% control imo.

Re: Come on Cas! : Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:30 pm  

Red Hot Jalapeno wrote:

Spot on! Come on Jonh, you claim to know everything about coaching so why are you not coaching? Lets face it,Noble has forgot more than you will ever know. You certainly talk a good game,lets see you in action.

Agreed, he seems to have foregotten the whole lot!

: Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:43 pm  

Wigan finished the game with only 11 fit players (see tonight W.E.P), which may account for the way we faded in the last twenty minutes.

It is more likely the abismal fitness levels of our first team why they faded in the last 20.

A prominant local coach was brought in after they got back from lanzarote, and he had them running a very big slag heap in aspull. He couldnt belive how unfit the majority of the squad where! Infact he went as far as to say he has 10 year olds at his club who could have done better.

It is not just noble that is the problem in my opinion, the entire back room staff needs looking at, i blamed forshaw for the lack of fitness last year, and it appears they are in no better condition to me.
Granted he cant do it all by himself, but exactly what qualifications/experience did he have in this field before he decided he wanted to do it?

Just because he was super fit himself, does not mean he can condition an entire team.

I would invest in a new back room team who actually have skills in this area as oppposed to changing the head coach, as i do not belive that

A) Is Lenegan strong enough to sack nobby? I dont think he is from impresions.
B) He wont pay a transfer fee for a prop or standoff (which even stevie wonder can see we need) so why on earth would he pay compensation to another club for a coach! That means we will end up with a out of work coach and how are they going to be better than what we have?

[DaveO]

: Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:07 pm  

warriorweed wrote:

Now is not the time to be swapping coaches around - the first few weeks were always going to be a bit of a struggle with the new combinations at 6, 7 and 9.

The thing in our favour is that it is not first past the post any longer and dropping 10 games in a season does not necessarily mean that you don't get a shot at being champions

Yes it does. Drop that many games and it says two things.

You start lower down in the play offs and history tells us only one side has won it outside the top 2 (and they were very lucky with injuries to the top 2).

It also tells us the team isn't that good. How do expect a team that drops 10 games to be good enough to win something?

This notion the fact we have a play off system means teams can be crap for a half a season gives a false sense of security to fans and is just an excuse to back poor play and coaching IMO.

- Saints lost 5 out of their first 10 last year, they didn't panic and sack Anderson.

That is probably because in the previous season they had seen what he and the team were capable of and was good rugby. The same can't be said about our team and coach. Why do you ignore this obvious and glaring difference?

Noble deserves to see at least half the season out imo.

He has had two and bit seasons already.

Dave

: Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:20 pm  

DaveO wrote:

He has had two and bit seasons already.

Dave

How would you sum up his efforts in those 2 and a half seasons?

: Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:35 pm  

kirkamania6 wrote:

Will he take us any further than that though?

who will take us further than that who we can realistically attract?

edwards wants to do the british lions so he wouldnt come yet. and he would cost a bomb to prise away from union where he is so highly rated.

farrell hasnt got the experience and he would go the same way betts did when he was coaching us.

people need to face that nobby is the best coach available at the minute weve done the chopping and changing of coaches over the last few years and look where that got us? nowhere.

the only coach who i think could move wigan on is shaun edwards and we do not stand a chance of getting him yet.

: Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:54 pm  

DaveO wrote:

Yes it does. Drop that many games and it says two things.

You start lower down in the play offs and history tells us only one side has won it outside the top 2 (and they were very lucky with injuries to the top 2).

It also tells us the team isn't that good. How do expect a team that drops 10 games to be good enough to win something?

This notion the fact we have a play off system means teams can be crap for a half a season gives a false sense of security to fans and is just an excuse to back poor play and coaching IMO.



That is probably because in the previous season they had seen what he and the team were capable of and was good rugby. The same can't be said about our team and coach. Why do you ignore this obvious and glaring difference?



He has had two and bit seasons already.

Dave

I hope we don't lose 10 matches this year and I agree that a side losing this many games doesn't deserve to be called champions, but it doesn't take away the fact that under the new play off system this year they will have a shot at the final more so than in years gone by.

I was using the Saints analysis to prove a point. Wigan won the Grand Final in 1998, the year after the coach got sacked. They got to grand finals in 2000 and 2001 and the year after both coaches didn't see out the season - my point is that the club and the fans have been too fickle in the past to get rid and this has de stabilised the club.

Granted he has had 2 and a bit years already,during that time the club has changed from top to bottom. Additionally, look at the key positions in the side i.e. 6 and 7 and 9, compare our players with those at Leeds and Saints. Ours is a new partnership for the umpteenth season running theirs are settled and know each other inside out. Get a bit of consistency and the results will come.

: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:09 pm  

Newton-Le-willows-Warrior wrote:

who will take us further than that who we can realistically attract?

edwards wants to do the british lions so he wouldnt come yet. and he would cost a bomb to prise away from union where he is so highly rated.

farrell hasnt got the experience and he would go the same way betts did when he was coaching us.

people need to face that nobby is the best coach available at the minute weve done the chopping and changing of coaches over the last few years and look where that got us? nowhere.

the only coach who i think could move wigan on is shaun edwards and we do not stand a chance of getting him yet.

Hanley maybe?

Although I agree Edwards would be the best man for the job and it would be difficult to prise him away but not impossible

I am a fan of Noble but just don't see with the style he plays and the players he has how he can take us to the levels of Stains and Leeds

The way he prefers to play 2nd grade aussies than bring through youth is the main bad point about Noble for me

: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:22 pm  

kirkamania6 wrote:

Hanley maybe?

Although I agree Edwards would be the best man for the job and it would be difficult to prise him away but not impossible

I am a fan of Noble but just don't see with the style he plays and the players he has how he can take us to the levels of Stains and Leeds

The way he prefers to play 2nd grade aussies than bring through youth is the main bad point about Noble for me

but lenegan also feels this way it isnt just noble at the club who prefers second rate aussies, the only second rate aussie in our squad is bailey and to an extent phelps.

good point about hanley though.

: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:29 pm  

warriorweed wrote:

I hope we don't lose 10 matches this year and I agree that a side losing this many games doesn't deserve to be called champions, but it doesn't take away the fact that under the new play off system this year they will have a shot at the final more so than in years gone by.

I was using the Saints analysis to prove a point. Wigan won the Grand Final in 1998, the year after the coach got sacked. They got to grand finals in 2000 and 2001 and the year after both coaches didn't see out the season - my point is that the club and the fans have been too fickle in the past to get rid and this has de stabilised the club.

Granted he has had 2 and a bit years already,during that time the club has changed from top to bottom. Additionally, look at the key positions in the side i.e. 6 and 7 and 9, compare our players with those at Leeds and Saints. Ours is a new partnership for the umpteenth season running theirs are settled and know each other inside out. Get a bit of consistency and the results will come.

Agreed, but we won't get that kind of stability at half back until we get a British pairing like Leeds and Saints have. Overseas players don't tend to stay more than two or three years then your back at square one. This will definately happen with Tim Smith next year. Tommy may be an exception so it's vital we get Sam Tomkins playing a regular role this season and by the looks of it the sooner the better.