Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:16 am  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

I posted that in direct response to someone who brought possession and territory up!! I didn't bring it up.

Did I say that because of those things we are a better team than you or that they are the only factors that matter? No.

What I did go on to say, which you conveniently ignore, is that we have contrasting styles, Wigan are more ruthless, can hurt you from anywhere and games between us can go either way.

How on earth do you translate that to me saying only yardage and territory matters and Saints are the much better team? It makes no sense mate. Please judge me on what I have actually said in the full context they were said and not on made up arguments that make it easy for you to have a pop.

And, in the same way, I was commenting on your post in which you also use territory as a marker of your dominance despite you being behind on the scoreboard. You can't expect to answer posts in isolation with no comeback. If you say something, I'm allowed to respond regardless of whose post you're answering.

In truth, my post wasn't aimed so much at you alone but to Stu who has repeatedly ploughed this furrow on this very thread, and also FTV who uses it on a regular basis too. It's a generalism so, for that, I'll happily apologise for quoting your post.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:22 am  

The styles of the two sides currently makes for an intriguing match up. Saints will always dominate territory IMO because of how they play in getting off the line and trying to pin you down at your end. There aren’t many team that can try and play to a plan that we can and that’s to not panic, try to soak it up and be confident that at some point we can trouble them with our pace, as the intensity drops a touch. The issue we face with Saints though is that intensity never drops significantly and they seem to lift it and have a 2nd/3rd wind as the game goes on. Where we’ve hurt ourselves badly in games against them is adding to that pressure they apply by keep making basic errors, down at our end of the field. Clean those up and we’ll be a far better chance in future games against them.

Ultimately they’re still favourites at the moment because like it or not, they’re the better side. It’s not tough or embarrassing to admit that, I just think it’s a fact. We’re getting there but there is still work to do yet. I’m chuffed we’ve closed the gap as much as we have because we’re probably a year in front of where I thought/hoped we’d be. To think back to last season, I wouldn’t have believed you had you said we’d have a cup win in the bag, beating Saints in the process and would be sat 2nd in the table (even after basically giving up a couple of losses for the Cup win).

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:24 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

And, in the same way, I was commenting on your post in which you also use territory as a marker of your dominance despite you being behind on the scoreboard. You can't expect to answer posts in isolation with no comeback. If you say something, I'm allowed to respond regardless of whose post you're answering..

NO I DIDN'T!!! Please please please stop putting words in my mouth. At no point did I say it was a marker of our dominance. Someone said Wigan were on top territorially and had more possession and I showed that wasn't the case.That is literally it. I didn't say we dominated the game. Please stop adding bits on that I haven't said, it's so frustrating. Take what I said at fae value and don't create a new meaning for the purpose of an argument.

Phuzzy wrote:

In truth, my post wasn't aimed so much at you alone but to Stu who has repeatedly ploughed this furrow on this very thread, and also FTV who uses it on a regular basis too. It's a generalism so, for that, I'll happily apologise for quoting your post.

Fair enough I am sure there are people (not necessarily saying Stu and FTV) who claim that those stats are all that matters. I am not one of them so I object to you reading what I say and then telling me I mean something else.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:25 am  

To be fair to YG and Stu, they are really knowledgeable posters and talk a lot of sense, particularly this debate. They're dead right in their assessment that Saints generally have had the upper hand in meetings this season, but we're getting closer.

One thing that is a positive for us going forward is the acquisition of Cooper. The difference in having him in the 17 next time out v Saints opposed to Partington/Shorrocks is night and day IMO. We could be at a point where we actually have the better pack come September.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:35 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

Ok I'll educate you

Firstly, wouldn't you say that the very definition of toothless (in rugby terms) is being unable to score points? Wouldn't you say that being unable to score points against 12 and then 11 men would further define it? If not, would you care to give me a better definition of toothless?

Secondly, you're asking for Wigan fans to give credit for your
Huddersfield performance whilst simultaneously belittling the semi final win (amongst others) and claiming 'unfair' when you don't get it.

I won't even comment on your assertion that "no other team could do it" (sic) as I shouldn't need to.

Seeing the irony yet?



For what it's worth, your performance against Huddersfield was outstanding.

Ok thanks for the education. However as an educated man (qualifications can be provided on request) I do know what toothless means.

The point I am making is that we only nilled them in your eyes because they were toothless. Heaven forbid it was due to our desire and outstanding defence. We made 4 or 5 try saving last ditch tackles for Gods sake so its hardly like they didn't break the line or stretch us. Hopoate injured himself for the first one and then Welsby and Lomax were responsible for the others. I thought you watched the game?

Secondly how am I belittling anything? Go through all my posts and you will see that I consistently say the gap is closing, Peet is doing a great job and you have great strike. So perhaps you need education on what "belittling" means. Do I think we are better than you? 100%. I'd go as far to say that we play you 10 times and with both teams being at full strength, we win 7/8. My opinion of course.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:36 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

And, in the same way, I was commenting on your post in which you also use territory as a marker of your dominance despite you being behind on the scoreboard. You can't expect to answer posts in isolation with no comeback. If you say something, I'm allowed to respond regardless of whose post you're answering.

In truth, my post wasn't aimed so much at you alone but to Stu who has repeatedly ploughed this furrow on this very thread, and also FTV who uses it on a regular basis too. It's a generalism so, for that, I'll happily apologise for quoting your post.

Have I?

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:36 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

The styles of the two sides currently makes for an intriguing match up. Saints will always dominate territory IMO because of how they play in getting off the line and trying to pin you down at your end. There aren’t many team that can try and play to a plan that we can and that’s to not panic, try to soak it up and be confident that at some point we can trouble them with our pace, as the intensity drops a touch. The issue we face with Saints though is that intensity never drops significantly and they seem to lift it and have a 2nd/3rd wind as the game goes on. Where we’ve hurt ourselves badly in games against them is adding to that pressure they apply by keep making basic errors, down at our end of the field. Clean those up and we’ll be a far better chance in future games against them.

Ultimately they’re still favourites at the moment because like it or not, they’re the better side. It’s not tough or embarrassing to admit that, I just think it’s a fact. We’re getting there but there is still work to do yet. I’m chuffed we’ve closed the gap as much as we have because we’re probably a year in front of where I thought/hoped we’d be. To think back to last season, I wouldn’t have believed you had you said we’d have a cup win in the bag, beating Saints in the process and would be sat 2nd in the table (even after basically giving up a couple of losses for the Cup win).

And this is why you are the most sensible poster on here (Wigan fans I mean )

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:41 am  

Stu M wrote:

Ok thanks for the education. However as an educated man (qualifications can be provided on request) I do know what toothless means.

The point I am making is that we only nilled them in your eyes because they were toothless. Heaven forbid it was due to our desire and outstanding defence. We made 4 or 5 try saving last ditch tackles for Gods sake so its hardly like they didn't break the line or stretch us. Hopoate injured himself for the first one and then Welsby and Lomax were responsible for the others. I thought you watched the game?

Secondly how am I belittling anything? Go through all my posts and you will see that I consistently say the gap is closing, Peet is doing a great job and you have great strike. So perhaps you need education on what "belittling" means. Do I think we are better than you? 100%. I'd go as far to say that we play you 10 times and with both teams being at full strength, we win 7/8. My opinion of course.

Mate, this very post belittles us! I asked if you recognised irony but maybe I should extend that to "damning with faint praise" too.

I'll also ask again; would you say "being unable to score points" is a reasonable description of toothless? If not, what is?

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:43 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

Mate, this very post belittles us! I asked if you recognised irony but maybe I should extend that to "damning with faint praise" too.

I'll also ask again; would you say "being unable to score points" is a reasonable description of toothless? If not, what is?

Going around in circles. I'll ask you again, is the fact that they were unable to score points not a reasonable description of our outstanding defence? If not, what is?

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:44 am  

Anyway its nice to debate/argue with fans of your biggest rivals. You should be thankful to me and TYG. This thread has had over 40 posts just this morning.