Re: Luke Thompson Confirmed : Thu Oct 05, 2023 10:41 pm  

[Gareth] wrote:

Dont worry, he's still here

That’s nice

Re: Luke Thompson Confirmed : Thu Oct 05, 2023 10:57 pm  

Stu M wrote:

Won't let me quote WWste above but I agree.

I think Welsby should go and test himself, I've said that for a while and I'd love to see him kill it over there. Fortunately two of our better Academy players are halves so one would be a direct replacement for Dodd if he did go.

We definitely have some rebuilding to do no question.

I would agree with that Stu. If I was a Saints fan(obviously I am not otherwise I would have one eye, three ears and two noses - only joking), I would have concerns about your front row. Many Saints fans are commenting that the club is well stacked in that department with Knowles, Matautia and a bunch of young lads being capable of filling the void. That’s where we were for most of the last decade and, although we had some decent backs they got no room to operate in as our forwards were more than often second best. Relying on the two previously mentioned players plus kids is a recipe for disaster. The problem is that there are few federation trained props around who possess the necessary quality (Wigan has been busy snapping them up) and therefore replacing the likes of Walmsley is going to be very difficult. Losing Welsby would put you on the same trajectory that we experienced when Tomkins left and it will become a mighty struggle to climb the hill.

Re: Luke Thompson Confirmed : Thu Oct 05, 2023 11:05 pm  

jonh wrote:

Old Magic Super Beetle on Red Vee is talking about targeting Nsemba because he is competing with 9 props next year and worried that we are not producing Academy players.

Given his intimate knowledge of our development pathways you would think he may know Nsemba is a secondrow.

We are still promoting players and continue to do so, we just do it in a planned and managed way to enhance their careers.

With Isa, Cooper and most likely Mago departing next year and fringe players like Cust, Thornley and possibly others (Powell & Shorrocks) there is plenty of room for our youngsters this year and next to progress.

Added to that, Junior has signed a new contract. Dream on I say.

Re: Luke Thompson Confirmed : Thu Oct 05, 2023 11:09 pm  

Stu M wrote:

Well firstly I was laughed at for saying a while ago if Thompson came back to SL it would be to Wigan but hey ho..

Secondly it doesn't matter whether Thompson counts £50k or £1 towards the salary cap, he will still be earning a fortune. Saints can't compete with that and if they are going to pay a wage like Thompson will be on then they'll need to put that towards Welsby or he'll be off to the NRL.

He also left on bad terms hence him leaving mid-season after being the only player unwilling to take a pay cut during Covid. The Covid repayment loans have now kicked in and Saints along with Leeds were the worst affected club.

There's no doubt that we will see some transition now and maybe a few trophyless years potentially but with what we've won recently its not like we've too much to complain about.

I don't for one minute think our Recruitment is finished either. 11 players are leaving/retiring at the end of the season. Whitley will be announced soon and I think there will be more to come. We have some outstanding Academy kids who undoubtedly will be playing first team in a couple of years. Stephens already has a squad number for next season and the one we are all excited about is Vaughan- Lancashire and England Academy captain and will be playing first team sooner rather than later. He is a back rower too. Delaney coming through is a huge bonus, the sky is the limit for him and I can see given his age why the comparisons with Thompson are being made.

I said on Redvee that this could now be a golden few years for Wigan. Smart recruitment, huge investment from a wealthy owner and still bringing talented lads through.

Thats sport, its cyclical. At some point Leeds are going to challenge again, then we have Warrington and maybe the Hull clubs can challenge too.

Stu, I figured you were better than that - posting on Redvee! Seriously, there are some good posters on there but they are seriously outnumbered by dicks.

Re: Luke Thompson Confirmed : Fri Oct 06, 2023 6:44 am  

Zig wrote:

I would agree with that Stu. If I was a Saints fan(obviously I am not otherwise I would have one eye, three ears and two noses - only joking), I would have concerns about your front row. Many Saints fans are commenting that the club is well stacked in that department with Knowles, Matautia and a bunch of young lads being capable of filling the void. That’s where we were for most of the last decade and, although we had some decent backs they got no room to operate in as our forwards were more than often second best. Relying on the two previously mentioned players plus kids is a recipe for disaster. The problem is that there are few federation trained props around who possess the necessary quality (Wigan has been busy snapping them up) and therefore replacing the likes of Walmsley is going to be very difficult. Losing Welsby would put you on the same trajectory that we experienced when Tomkins left and it will become a mighty struggle to climb the hill.

To be fair. There are no concerns from me about Saints pack for next season. They will still be in the top 2 packs along with Wigan. The concern is the lack of pace in the three quarters and the impotent scrum half which will be their undoing.

I cant see past a wigan grand final this season. They have hit form at just the right time. Given the signings they have made for next season and beyond, plus how utterly weak every other SL team is bar St Helens, its not beyond the realms of possibility that they emulate Saints 4 peat.

Please, just do me a favour. Go and beat those cocky idiots from Penrith next february.

Re: Luke Thompson Confirmed : Fri Oct 06, 2023 6:55 am  

RobRiches wrote:

To be fair. There are no concerns from me about Saints pack for next season. They will still be in the top 2 packs along with Wigan. The concern is the lack of pace in the three quarters and the impotent scrum half which will be their undoing.

I cant see past a wigan grand final this season. They have hit form at just the right time. Given the signings they have made for next season and beyond, plus how utterly weak every other SL team is bar St Helens, its not beyond the realms of possibility that they emulate Saints 4 peat.

Please, just do me a favour. Go and beat those cocky idiots from Penrith next february.

Penrith won’t make that mistake again. They will take next year seriously.

Re: Luke Thompson Confirmed : Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:19 am  

Smalls wrote: Penrith won’t make that mistake again. They will take next year seriously. Comments like this really wind me up and are just a way of dismissing our achievement. They were practically at full strength and you only have to see the footage of their players at the end to realise how seriously they took it. I suggest you read Ivan Cleary's comments here. https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/10/03/c ... r-in-2024/ Just in case you don't bother, I've cut and pasted below “It would be awesome to get another crack at it,” Cleary told AAP. “We were pretty bummed about that one. “We absolutely gave it our best, it was the first game of the year and St Helens were too good for us that night. “It would be nice to get another shot at it.”

Smalls wrote: Penrith won’t make that mistake again. They will take next year seriously. Comments like this really wind me up and are just a way of dismissing our achievement. They were practically at full strength and you only have to see the footage of their players at the end to realise how seriously they took it. I suggest you read Ivan Cleary's comments here. https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/10/03/c ... r-in-2024/ Just in case you don't bother, I've cut and pasted below “It would be awesome to get another crack at it,” Cleary told AAP. “We were pretty bummed about that one. “We absolutely gave it our best, it was the first game of the year and St Helens were too good for us that night. “It would be nice to get another shot at it.”

Re: Luke Thompson Confirmed : Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:12 am  

Zig wrote:

I would agree with that Stu. If I was a Saints fan(obviously I am not otherwise I would have one eye, three ears and two noses - only joking), I would have concerns about your front row. Many Saints fans are commenting that the club is well stacked in that department with Knowles, Matautia and a bunch of young lads being capable of filling the void. That’s where we were for most of the last decade and, although we had some decent backs they got no room to operate in as our forwards were more than often second best. Relying on the two previously mentioned players plus kids is a recipe for disaster. The problem is that there are few federation trained props around who possess the necessary quality (Wigan has been busy snapping them up) and therefore replacing the likes of Walmsley is going to be very difficult. Losing Welsby would put you on the same trajectory that we experienced when Tomkins left and it will become a mighty struggle to climb the hill.

I think you are overstating issues in the Saints pack.

Walmsley
Clark
Lees
Sironen
Batchelor
Bell

Knowles
Sione
Delaney
Mbye

We then have Wingfield, Eseh (apparently), Paasi to come back in mid-season hopefully before moving on to younger prospects. We also have back row options (including Whitley) which means Sironen could play prop if needed which he is more than capable of doing.

I know people keep saying Knowles and Sione aren't props, but that doesn't change the fact that they are actually excellent props!

We probably need one more prop but I'm not concerned to be honest, I'm more concerned about us signing a strike outside back.

Re: Luke Thompson Confirmed : Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:25 am  

Stu M wrote: Comments like this really wind me up and are just a way of dismissing our achievement. They were practically at full strength and you only have to see the footage of their players at the end to realise how seriously they took it. I suggest you read Ivan Cleary's comments here. https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/10/03/c ... r-in-2024/ Just in case you don't bother, I've cut and pasted below “It would be awesome to get another crack at it,” Cleary told AAP. “We were pretty bummed about that one. “We absolutely gave it our best, it was the first game of the year and St Helens were too good for us that night. “It would be nice to get another shot at it.” I agree, it was a cracking game, both teams were giving it their all and it was a great achievement by Saints. Rather than implying they didn't take it seriously last time I would just say that this time around - assuming there even is a WCC, which is never a given - they will be even more fired up, because they will be motivated to put it right.

Stu M wrote: Comments like this really wind me up and are just a way of dismissing our achievement. They were practically at full strength and you only have to see the footage of their players at the end to realise how seriously they took it. I suggest you read Ivan Cleary's comments here. https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/10/03/c ... r-in-2024/ Just in case you don't bother, I've cut and pasted below “It would be awesome to get another crack at it,” Cleary told AAP. “We were pretty bummed about that one. “We absolutely gave it our best, it was the first game of the year and St Helens were too good for us that night. “It would be nice to get another shot at it.” I agree, it was a cracking game, both teams were giving it their all and it was a great achievement by Saints. Rather than implying they didn't take it seriously last time I would just say that this time around - assuming there even is a WCC, which is never a given - they will be even more fired up, because they will be motivated to put it right.

Re: Luke Thompson Confirmed : Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:53 am  

It's silly to try and decry the Saints win last year. They beat the Aussies on their own soil which is a great achievement.

Just on the Cleary quote though: it's entirely possible to give it your best but be under prepared. Just ask the US Ryder cup team

It's certainly true that they could up there game this time around simply by preparing better or having more warm up games. Whether they will or not remains to be seen. The Aussies still have the attitude that they "only need to turn up" despite history telling a different story.