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WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Team for HKR
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Re: Team for HKR : Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:52 pm  
Each to their own. He was good for Wigan, he could’ve been better IMO. The coaches can only do so much and players need to take some responsibility on their own shoulders, especially when it comes to their own fitness. I saw pictures of him on his first day of Canberra pre season and he’d already shed a load of weight, so that goes against the fact it’s all down to improved coaching and better players.

He's away from his comfort blanket of Wigan and fair play to him for how he’s playing. I never bagged him in his time at Wigan and have always been a fan. It doesn’t mean I didn’t believe he could be better. His form down under is no surprise to me. I always said he’d do a Mike Cooper and improve once he pushed himself. Me saying players could do better (we’ve had this with Burgess) isn’t me saying I think they’re sh*te, in fact it’s totally the opposite.
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Re: Team for HKR : Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:02 pm  
HKR just appointed Tony Smith as coach until the end of the season. That will make Sunday’s game tougher I’m sure as the players try to impress.
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Re: Team for HKR : Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:08 pm  
The NRL is lightyears ahead of SL. Their facilities are better as well as coaching, technology, climate and professionalism. How are people still surprised when a player goes over there and immediately improves?
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Re: Team for HKR : Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:21 pm  
NickyKiss wrote:
Each to their own. He was good for Wigan, he could’ve been better IMO. The coaches can only do so much and players need to take some responsibility on their own shoulders, especially when it comes to their own fitness. I saw pictures of him on his first day of Canberra pre season and he’d already shed a load of weight, so that goes against the fact it’s all down to improved coaching and better players.

He's away from his comfort blanket of Wigan and fair play to him for how he’s playing. I never bagged him in his time at Wigan and have always been a fan. It doesn’t mean I didn’t believe he could be better. His form down under is no surprise to me. I always said he’d do a Mike Cooper and improve once he pushed himself. Me saying players could do better (we’ve had this with Burgess) isn’t me saying I think they’re sh*te, in fact it’s totally the opposite.


Nailed it for me
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Re: Team for HKR : Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:53 pm  
Tony Smith new Hull KR coach - think we could have done without that. New coach effect and all that.
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Re: Team for HKR : Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:42 am  
NickyKiss wrote:
Sutton’s improvements are down to focus IMO. A focus on getting himself fit and loosing the puppy fat and focus on match days to go full tilt at all times rather than going through the motions at points.

Shame playing for Wigan couldn’t get that focus from him. He was a good player for us but clearly left plenty in the tank.


I would argue it's down to being allowed to play a game more suited to him and being allowed more time with the ball and more time on the field in general.

When, under Shaun Wane, did any of our props make 19 carries in a game? Other clubs have players doing that kind of work in a game (Garbutt, Watts, Merrin, Battye, Thompson, Walmsley, Fifita, Hill etc.) yet our props would often make 6 or 7 carries.

How were any of our props going to stand out compared to players who get through that amount of work? Even when Sutton had a good game for us he'd generally be overlooked as a key player because he 'made a few good carries'. But give him the workload of other props and that would have become 'lots of good carries'.

Obviously Wane had his tactics. All those carries that the props made at other clubs were shared out by our outside backs and also our back row. Bateman and Faz would be more likely to make 19+ carries in a game.

Presumably Wane thought the less work our forwards did in attack and the more they were rotated during a game the fitter they'd be in defence and the better our line speed would be. You could argue it was the right idea as we won trophies, but it meant none of our forwards were ever likely to stand out compared to their peers.

For me Sutton was always capable of playing longer minutes, making more carries, and generally getting involved more during games. He's also pretty good at making metres after contact, which is something Wane discouraged as it slowed down the play the ball. Some players suit that (Flower is the obvious example), but others who have good leg strength and good technique going into contact inevitably didn't get to use all of their strengths. I'd say Wane's tactics held Sutton back more than any other player, particularly in terms of trying to force his way into the England side.

No doubt there has been some improvements in fitness and he's playing in a better environment, but there has always been ability there. That's why NRL clubs have been chasing Sutton for years. I was fairly confident he would look better in the NRL than he did here.
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Re: Team for HKR : Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:22 am  
Cherry.Pie wrote:
I would argue it's down to being allowed to play a game more suited to him and being allowed more time with the ball and more time on the field in general.

When, under Shaun Wane, did any of our props make 19 carries in a game? Other clubs have players doing that kind of work in a game (Garbutt, Watts, Merrin, Battye, Thompson, Walmsley, Fifita, Hill etc.) yet our props would often make 6 or 7 carries.

How were any of our props going to stand out compared to players who get through that amount of work? Even when Sutton had a good game for us he'd generally be overlooked as a key player because he 'made a few good carries'. But give him the workload of other props and that would have become 'lots of good carries'.

Obviously Wane had his tactics. All those carries that the props made at other clubs were shared out by our outside backs and also our back row. Bateman and Faz would be more likely to make 19+ carries in a game.

Presumably Wane thought the less work our forwards did in attack and the more they were rotated during a game the fitter they'd be in defence and the better our line speed would be. You could argue it was the right idea as we won trophies, but it meant none of our forwards were ever likely to stand out compared to their peers.

For me Sutton was always capable of playing longer minutes, making more carries, and generally getting involved more during games. He's also pretty good at making metres after contact, which is something Wane discouraged as it slowed down the play the ball. Some players suit that (Flower is the obvious example), but others who have good leg strength and good technique going into contact inevitably didn't get to use all of their strengths. I'd say Wane's tactics held Sutton back more than any other player, particularly in terms of trying to force his way into the England side.

No doubt there has been some improvements in fitness and he's playing in a better environment, but there has always been ability there. That's why NRL clubs have been chasing Sutton for years. I was fairly confident he would look better in the NRL than he did here.



I fully agree it was tough to rack up the metres/tackle stats under Wane due to his rotation and playing longer minutes is probably helping Sutton now but his fitness and focus are allowing him to make the impact he is IMO. There are clearly a number of factor’s around his improvements but those two points I mention are ones that he wasn’t always on top of in his time with us for me. He could’ve been fitter without any question and he could’ve pushed himself harder to stand out from the pack. He’s showing now just how talented he is. He’s an international class prop forward but for us he was never anything more then a good super League prop.


I’d love to see him back here one day and like Mike Cooper I think we’d see a much better version and have a player who could lead our group of props.
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Re: Team for HKR : Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:35 am  
more game time makes you fitter
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Re: Team for HKR : Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:47 am  
Pieman wrote:
more game time makes you fitter


Match fitter for sure but it doesn’t account for the fantastic shape he turned up in at Canberra pre season training.
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Re: Team for HKR : Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:55 pm  
NickyKiss wrote:
I fully agree it was tough to rack up the metres/tackle stats under Wane due to his rotation and playing longer minutes is probably helping Sutton now but his fitness and focus are allowing him to make the impact he is IMO. There are clearly a number of factor’s around his improvements but those two points I mention are ones that he wasn’t always on top of in his time with us for me. He could’ve been fitter without any question and he could’ve pushed himself harder to stand out from the pack. He’s showing now just how talented he is. He’s an international class prop forward but for us he was never anything more then a good super League prop.


I’d love to see him back here one day and like Mike Cooper I think we’d see a much better version and have a player who could lead our group of props.


He was super fit last season with us, Lee Blundell got him in great shape. He is the same weight in Australia as he was at Wigan, the difference is that they concentrate more on natural fitness (aerobic) rather than punishing yourself in the gym, it is what we should be doing with the likes of Clubb. He must have stood out from the pack or he wouldn't be playing in the NRL.
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