Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:12 pm  

Most sides pass sideways and backwards and start buiilding slowly from the back but the better sides are able to suddenly speed up the pace of play to exploit a defensive weakness. England seem to lack that ability. We seem to pass the ball around fairly aimlessly, allow the opponents to get players behind the ball and then seem to run out of ideas. Probably because there is a dearth of English midfield players that are genuinely good passers of the ball.

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:26 pm  

My England Team vs Slovenia:

--------------------David James--------------------
Glenn Johnson--John Terry--Matthew Upson--Ashley Cole
James Milner---Gareth Barry-Frank Lampard---Joe Cole
--------------------Steven Gerrard--------------------
--------------------Wayne Rooney--------------------

I'm afarid that just shows the lack of options we have in our squad and in our National Team in general really.

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:36 pm  

Cibaman wrote:

Most sides pass sideways and backwards and start buiilding slowly from the back but the better sides are able to suddenly speed up the pace of play to exploit a defensive weakness. England seem to lack that ability. We seem to pass the ball around fairly aimlessly, allow the opponents to get players behind the ball and then seem to run out of ideas. Probably because there is a dearth of English midfield players that are genuinely good passers of the ball.

I think our movement off the ball is something that needs a lot more focus on as well.

It's natural for us as kids to all just run towards the ball, but something that struck me recently when I was in Buenos Aires (the hostel I stayed in had a terrace which overlooked a concrete pitch) was that fairly young kids playing football didn't do it half as much, actually taking up good positions away from where the main "action" was, I looked out for it when I was in Spain a couple of weeks ago too and it was the same there.

I was talking about it with someone here who put it down to us needing to run around more to keep warm because of the climate, but obviously there has to be a lot more to it than that.

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:57 pm  

Asim wrote:

I think our movement off the ball is something that needs a lot more focus on as well.

It's natural for us as kids to all just run towards the ball, but something that struck me recently when I was in Buenos Aires (the hostel I stayed in had a terrace which overlooked a concrete pitch) was that fairly young kids playing football didn't do it half as much, actually taking up good positions away from where the main "action" was, I looked out for it when I was in Spain a couple of weeks ago too and it was the same there.

I was talking about it with someone here who put it down to us needing to run around more to keep warm because of the climate, but obviously there has to be a lot more to it than that.

Perhaps they have better coaches? Perhaps they don't have idiot parents abusing their children if they don't 'get stuck in'? Perhaps they don't feel the need to put the biggest lad up front to they can lump the ball up to him?

I had some involvement in kids football teams when I was younger and there are too many idiots who's sole objective is to win rather than for their child to enjoy themselves and learn how to play the game.

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:09 pm  

The Joker® wrote:

My England Team vs Slovenia:

--------------------David James--------------------
Glenn Johnson--John Terry--Matthew Upson--Ashley Cole
James Milner---Gareth Barry-Frank Lampard---Joe Cole
--------------------Steven Gerrard--------------------
--------------------Wayne Rooney--------------------

I'm afarid that just shows the lack of options we have in our squad and in our National Team in general really.

Yeah really like the look of that side, have you got Capello's number?

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:28 pm  

Smiggs wrote:

Yeah really like the look of that side, have you got Capello's number?

It's Crapello for the time being.

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:31 pm  

Asim wrote:

I'm not saying anything of the sort, but it is the prevailing attitude.

You can look at the football chat thread on this very board and see examples of people who seem to take offence if you say you prefer to watch La Liga over the Premier League.

I got chatting to someone in Leeds the other day while watching the Spain game, when I told him I watch more La Liga than Premier League football the response was "I don't know how you can watch that slow s**t" and it is far from the first time I've had a similar reaction.

Having watched football week in, week out for 25 years now it's pretty obvious the average English football fan values "getting stuck in" and "putting yourself about" more than keeping the ball and playing patient football.

I will repeat... in the main, there is no sneering attitude towards 'foreign' football. Even a knuckle-dragging, tattooed, fat-bellied England supporter can clearly see it's better technical-skill-wise. There might be an issue around the pace of the game, but even that is largely unfounded.
That sneering attitude is all in your mind.
In the main England fans admire soccer skills from wherever......why wouldn't they?????

Don't base an argument on what a bloke in Leeds said......this is not a racist issue....England fans are no thicker than anyone else.

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:50 pm  

I think we're getting it wrong at the minute, badly. We're asking people to carry out roles that they aren't comfortable with and clearly we're not getting the best out of key personnel (All the focus in Rooney - I'd say getting the best out of Ashley Cole would be just as beneficial).

For Slovakia, I'd go 4-2-3-1.

James, Johnson, A.Cole, Terry, Dawson, Carrick, Barry, J.Cole. Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney.

Let Barry & Carrick screen, allow the front four to interchange and just influence the game at the top end of the field, and push the left & right back further forward confident that if it breaks down you have Barry & Carrick able to fill in but with their primary function to break up attacks and give quick, accurate ball to England's four offensive players.

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:57 pm  

Stand-Offish wrote:

I will repeat... in the main, there is no sneering attitude towards 'foreign' football. Even a knuckle-dragging, tattooed, fat-bellied England supporter can clearly see it's better technical-skill-wise. There might be an issue around the pace of the game, but even that is largely unfounded.
That sneering attitude is all in your mind.
In the main England fans admire soccer skills from wherever......why wouldn't they?????

Don't base an argument on what a bloke in Leeds said......this is not a racist issue....England fans are no thicker than anyone else.

I've never said it was a racist issue, not sure where that has come from.

The average English supporter might acknowledge it is better technical skill wise, but what I am saying is that it doesn't seem to be what they want from their football, until that changes then our play won't evolve the way I believe it needs to if we are to compete with the best players on the international stage.

As has been pointed out by others on this thread - just listen to the reaction a team in this country often gets when they knock it around the back for 30 seconds, whether I'm at Valley Parade watching Bradford City doing it (or trying to), or in a pub watching England doing it the same reaction comes from the majority of the fans - they don't like it and get on the backs of the players.

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:26 pm  

Asim wrote:

I've never said it was a racist issue, not sure where that has come from.

The average English supporter might acknowledge it is better technical skill wise, but what I am saying is that it doesn't seem to be what they want from their football, until that changes then our play won't evolve the way I believe it needs to if we are to compete with the best players on the international stage.

As has been pointed out by others on this thread - just listen to the reaction a team in this country often gets when they knock it around the back for 30 seconds, whether I'm at Valley Parade watching Bradford City doing it (or trying to), or in a pub watching England doing it the same reaction comes from the majority of the fans - they don't like it and get on the backs of the players.

Your talking chicken and egg here.
We get what we want.....or we get what can be provided.
Which is it?

Besides with the influx of foreign players into our leagues are you saying nothing has changed....we still want kick and rush??

I don't think so.

If we could have the best the world can offer we would embrace it AND if it meant the style of play changed, we would embrace that as well.
We are not some kind of a nation stuck in a time-warp....we are amenable to a better product...if someone offers it.

And yes we could watch a more measured, skillful game if we were given it.

Our clubs are successful in Europe because we have in effect done just that. we have embraced the best and we do watch 'foreign' football NOW. That will filter down into our system with youngsters.