Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:36 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Weird. You acknowledge the presence of a keeper but then totally discount his ability to prevent Rooney scoring a goal.

If Rooney had done his job and scored how much blame would've been given to the 'keeper? Absolutely none. Any critic would've said that the 'keeper isn't expected to make saves when 1-on-1 with top quality strikers in that position.

But Rooney didn't do his job properly. He fluffed an easy chance and gave the keeper the opportunity to make the save.

If Heskey had done that, there wouldn't have been the barrel-scraping attempt to paint the miss as a great save.

I bet you're the type of guy who criticises Pele for missing the net when Banks pulled off his miracle save.

1. I don't blame Banks at all for not making a save from the shot for the goal. That player did his ****ing job and finished with the accuracy and power to earn a goal, not like Rooney today.

2. I don't think Banks's save is anyway near as good as people say. IMO it was a very good header, powered in and bouncing in front of Banks which made it difficult for Banks, but not impossible. IMO the main reason why the save is raved about is simply because Banks pushed the ball straight up and over the bar. For that it was very unusual, but for me he could have just as easily pushed the ball away from goal to his left and there wouldn't have been the hype that has been built around it. It's actually like Rooney's season - Rooney was outscored by Drogba, Drogba created far more than Rooney, Rooney won the Couldn't Careless Cup (playing in just the semi and final) compared to Drogba's double, but yet Rooney picks up the Player of the Year awards as though there's not even any debate.

Fact: Goalkeepers are there to PREVENT a goal. Perhaps if Rooney had tapped it straight into his gloves you might have a point. Instead he aimed straight for the corner and it took a finger-tip save (at full-stretch) to keep it out. Which - sadly for you - equals a good shot well saved rather than a plain miss.

Goalkeeper's are there to prevent goals. But they aren't expected to be saving penalties from competent players and they aren't expected to save from the position they were in today. When players miss pens or pi55 easy chances the striker takes a hit for it - unless you're a granny shagger Yanited player that is.

Fact: Rooney has been outstanding for almost all of the season weighing in with a barrow-load of goals. When he wasn't scoring he was acting as the hub of United's attacking game and he provided plenty of goals and opportunities for his team-mates. Given that - prior to this season - he has never truly been a prolific striker I'd say he deserves EVERY BIT of praise he's received and arguably more besides.

He's been compared with Messi FFS as the best player in the world. He won the PotY awards even though he was second best to Drogba. 8ollocks he deserved the praise he got last year. He was awesome last season but the accolades that went his way were ridiculous and only given because he's an English (sort of) Yanited player.

He didn't deserve the awards and accolades he got for last year and he ****ing well does deserve a shoeing for failing to score with the chance he was given today.

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:05 pm  

Karlos13 wrote:

Thought you'd be getting all patriotic now Stevie G is captain?

No

But I want like England to beat Germany

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:40 am  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

If Rooney had done his job and scored how much blame would've been given to the 'keeper? Absolutely none. Any critic would've said that the 'keeper isn't expected to make saves when 1-on-1 with top quality strikers in that position.

But Rooney didn't do his job properly. He fluffed an easy chance and gave the keeper the opportunity to make the save.

If Heskey had done that, there wouldn't have been the barrel-scraping attempt to paint the miss as a great save.

Unfortunately, you appear to be forgetting the fact that the Slovenian keeper is highly rated and expected to sign for one of the top teams in Italy, Spain or England this summer.

Your point would be valid if we were talking about some guy they'd dug out of the Conference. He isn't.

I seriously doubt "any critic" would've said "a TOP CLASS keeper isn't expected to make saves when 1-on-1 with top quality strikers in that position". In any case - you can't discount the role of sheer bloody chance. Even a pub football keeper can be lucky.

1. I don't blame Banks at all for not making a save from the shot for the goal. That player did his ****ing job and finished with the accuracy and power to earn a goal, not like Rooney today.

2. I don't think Banks's save is anyway near as good as people say.

I think you need to watch that save again. There's a reason guys like Beckenbauer, Muller & Eusebio rate it as one of - if not the greatest save in history. It strikes me that you're one of these people who discount the achievements and capabilities of goalkeepers - certainly their ability to PREVENT goals at the highest level against the greatest of opponents.

He's been compared with Messi FFS as the best player in the world. He won the PotY awards even though he was second best to Drogba. 8ollocks he deserved the praise he got last year. He was awesome last season but the accolades that went his way were ridiculous and only given because he's an English (sort of) Yanited player.

He didn't deserve the awards and accolades he got for last year and he ****ing well does deserve a shoeing for failing to score with the chance he was given today.

There really is no point discussing football with someone who cannot put aside tribal loyalties to look objectively at the game. I prefer Liverpool (I wouldn't call myself a fan) but I applaud good play from any club - whether it be United, Arsenal or Chelsea. From what I saw of last season Rooney deserved every accolade that came his way. Let's not forget that he is UNIVERSALLY rated by his peers at the highest level - whether they be in the Premiership or Serie A, Spain etc. THAT counts for far more than your bitter and hopelessly biased diatribe.

But even the best players can be halted by good goalkeeping. Rooney aimed for the corner (not at the keeper) and the ball would have nestled there if it had not been for a full length, finger-tip save by an excellent keeper (who denied England on several occasions). No coach worth his salt would criticise Rooney's attempt. But feel free to carry on munching those sour grapes.

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:44 am  

One thought ahead of the Germany match, would people change Barry? Personally I think he's been rubbish and his only contribution is to continually give the ball away. King in front of the back four would be good if he is fit, maybe Carrick?

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:06 am  

Think we should change formation as United do for the bigger games and get Wayne up top on his own for this one

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:12 am  

Mugwump wrote:

Eh? Gerrard was arguably our MOM. It was either him or Milner.

He's being shown the outside playing on the left, and he's too right footed to do much out there. He isn't half the player he can be in the middle of the park.

Teams that have passed to feet have pretty much ALWAYS done well at World Cups (providing they have good players).

True, but the long ball down the channels isn't as effective as it has been in the past.

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:16 am  

Stand-Offish wrote:

You are Fabio...I claim my £5.
Who can score goals and who cant???

Not Crouch from long balls pumped from the back.

Besides which....we could have played the ball to him....we'd want him to hold it up at that stage and take some pressure of our overworked defence. He's an awkward enough character and wins free kicks.

He's not as strong as Heskey in holding up the ball and any ball that isn't played directly to him is giving it straight back to the opposition. He wouldn't have taken any pressure off the defence at that point.

Fabio will be harking back to when we beat the Germans 5-1 and could well revert to Heskey, who played in that match....please god no!!!!. Not that I believe in god. But I believe more in Michael Owen, who unfortunately isn't there.

Don't tell me you're an Heskey fan??

I can see why managers pick him, he works hard, when he's on his game he can be an excellent provider for other players, but his lack of goal scoring threat means he's not good enough for this level for me.

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:29 am  

We were robbed! All the penalties we've conceeded for handball and those dirty convicts get away with one.

Anyway, all the abuse I've got will be meaningless when England fly home on Sunday.

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:32 am  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

Not Crouch from long balls pumped from the back.

He's not as strong as Heskey in holding up the ball and any ball that isn't played directly to him is giving it straight back to the opposition. He wouldn't have taken any pressure off the defence at that point.

I can see why managers pick him, he works hard, when he's on his game he can be an excellent provider for other players, but his lack of goal scoring threat means he's not good enough for this level for me.

Yeah I can see what you are saying..........but half the point I was trying to make is that I find it worrying that Capello has been handed a better performance by the exclusion of Heskey and still he doesn't learn from it...and he takes the chance to bring Heskey (not someone more deserving) straight back into the mix.

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:40 am  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

He's being shown the outside playing on the left, and he's too right footed to do much out there. He isn't half the player he can be in the middle of the park.

Let's not forget that Gerrard (in all manner of positions) has hardly set England on fire in the past. If he's playing on the left and turning in good MOM performances I'll take that.

True, but the long ball down the channels isn't as effective as it has been in the past.

How many teams have won the World Cup playing long-ball tactics? How many have even got to the semis?

Although, there is a counter-argument which says there's nothing intrinsically wrong with playing the long-ball game - provided you have the PLAYERS to execute the plan. I think the truth is the long-ball game is easier to defend against. But if you have the right players who are well drilled by a canny tactician it can be murder to stop. I suppose the best example to offer would be Wimbledon. When they first came up they were a nightmare to play against and cut a swathe of destruction to near the top of the league and F.A. cup glory.

Given the number of teams playing the ball to feet in this World Cup I half expect we'll see someone in the near future putting together a group of - perhaps - less skillful footballers who are perfectly suited to the long ball game. Set loose in this tournament I think they would do quite well.