Re: NFL Chat 2 : Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:18 pm  

Bevan Wire wrote:

I was referring to Rodgers having inherited a team that had been to a conf champ.

Exactly the same as for Chris Johnson.

A) Rodgers was essentially a rookie in his first year as a starter, he couldn't be expected to carry us back to the same record, he'd need to build cohesion with his recievers.

B) Ryan Grant, the guy who ran for over 200 yards on Seattle in the play-offs, held out for a new contract and then was injured. Didn't participate in mini-camp or the preseason significantly and was still hampered by his injuries for a number of weeks into the season.

C) Defence was terrible last year. Little pressure outside of Kampman and we couldn't be reliant on two corners playing exclusively press coverage off the line as our only form of defence. Definately poor and as a result we fired our d co-ordinator and hired Dom Capers and changed the system.

D) We have the youngest team in the NFL. Rodgers needed time to develop into being able to command the ship.

It may well have been the same team in name but significantly difference in terms of performance, Rodgers being our best player by an absolute mile.

The same thing goes for the Titans this year, barring Haynesworth i think they are largely the same line-up. Likwise Cincy, but they have improved rather than deteriorated.

Re: NFL Chat 2 : Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:24 pm  

ST_CONROY wrote:

Exactly the same as for Chris Johnson.

A) Rodgers was essentially a rookie in his first year as a starter, he couldn't be expected to carry us back to the same record, he'd need to build cohesion with his recievers.

B) Ryan Grant, the guy who ran for over 200 yards on Seattle in the play-offs, held out for a new contract and then was injured. Didn't participate in mini-camp or the preseason significantly and was still hampered by his injuries for a number of weeks into the season.

C) Defence was terrible last year. Little pressure outside of Kampman and we couldn't be reliant on two corners playing exclusively press coverage off the line as our only form of defence. Definately poor and as a result we fired our d co-ordinator and hired Dom Capers and changed the system.

D) We have the youngest team in the NFL. Rodgers needed time to develop into being able to command the ship.

It may well have been the same team in name but significantly difference in terms of performance, Rodgers being our best player by an absolute mile.

The same thing goes for the Titans this year, barring Haynesworth i think they are largely the same line-up. Likwise Cincy, but they have improved rather than deteriorated.

It was the reverse for Matt Ryan and look at him and how well he fared? I find it amusing your comparing a QB and a RB, thought you knew a bit more about the game than that.Its all swings and roundabouts. I think Rodgers is doing outstanding which is shown in his fantasy numbers albeit it with a relatively simple,easy schedule(1 win against a winning team) and only played 3 teams with a winning record. When you make the playoffs and if he performs or leads his eam to a title, he will get the recognition you crave.

Re: NFL Chat 2 : Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:00 pm  

Bevan Wire wrote:

It was the reverse for Matt Ryan and look at him and how well he fared?

Yeah he did well in his rookie year. It's the same situation though. The turn around in Atlanta was due to more than just Matt Ryan turning up.

Bevan Wire wrote:

I find it amusing your comparing a QB and a RB, thought you knew a bit more about the game than that.

I'm comparing the situation not the position or players. You intimated that Rodgers cannot be elite because he inherited a team that was in the conf game and then had a worse record the year later along with not winning a play-off game yet. Chris Johnson is the same. He has performed to an extremely high level (higher than his 1st year) and is on pace to break the rushing record. Like Rodgers when he took over, the team has deteriorated and yet he performed to a high level and better than the record suggests. Nobody would say Johnson isn't elite.

Likewise i think the same applies to S-Jax.

Bevan Wire wrote:

When you make the playoffs and if he performs or leads his eam to a title, he will get the recognition you crave.

I don't crave it. I think he deserves it and is playing well enough to get it yet people don't seem to think he is as good as the top few in the league. Other than he hasn't been around long enough, which just about seems the only argument people don't say why he isn't. I think it is ridiculous people are suggesting the difference between being elite and not is one game, i.e if we win a play-off game. I have all the comments people have made about him not being good enough saved and they will be brought out when we win the SB. I'll accept a full apology from everybody when that happens.

Re: NFL Chat 2 : Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:27 pm  

Can we move the thread along as this Rodgers thing is getting pretty tiresome. He's good, very good. Is he as good as Conroy says? I'm not convinced but we shall find out over the course of the next couple of months. For me he's not quite into that top echelon of Brady, the Mannings, Big Ben and maybe Warner, because he just isn't clutch enough yet. I'd then have Brees and Rivers with Rodgers hot on their trail. The key for me is that all my elite QB's with maybe the exception of E Manning will go into the HOF. I don't know where to put Favre, he's elite on current form but can his shoulder last the course. That's me done on the Rodgers subject for now.

Who is everyone fancying for the Superbowl at the moment? I'm seriously tempted to get on the Cards to return to the big show but New Orleans will be a big obstacle. Vikings are looking good but haven't had a testing schedule. From the AFC it's impossible to make a call. Indy are looking awesome, NE will get it together when it matters and San Diego have the firepower. The Bengals probably don't have enough for me and of course if the Steelers sneak in they can't be discounted.

Re: NFL Chat 2 : Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:37 pm  

El Pac Carnegie wrote:

Who is everyone fancying for the Superbowl at the moment? I'm seriously tempted to get on the Cards to return to the big show but New Orleans will be a big obstacle. Vikings are looking good but haven't had a testing schedule. From the AFC it's impossible to make a call. Indy are looking awesome, NE will get it together when it matters and San Diego have the firepower. The Bengals probably don't have enough for me and of course if the Steelers sneak in they can't be discounted.

Can't see past Indy in the AFC but the NFC is harder to predict with NO,Minny,Philly and even Arizona looking like they all have enough to make it to Miami.

Re: NFL Chat 2 : Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:47 pm  

Indy will choke IMHO its happened before and it will happen again!!!

Re: NFL Chat 2 : Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:53 pm  

In the NFC it's NO or Minnesota for me. The Cards might get a shot, but I'm not convinced by them (but I wasn't last year....). Other than that it's pretty average IMHO. It's December so bye bye Cowboys, Giants are looking poor despite last week, Philli have a shot I suppose and Green Bay have got plenty of talent, and they're bang in the wild card hunt.

AFC wise, it's 1 of 3 - Indy, NE or SD. I honestly like San Diego's chances. 3 big weeks coming up @ Dallas, Cinci and @ Tennessee, then finish with Washington at the Q. Come out of that 3-1 and I think that's the bye locked up. Rivers and co seem to have the hoodoo over the Colts, so they honestly don't scare me.

The fact that I'd love to see a Rivers vs Brees superbowl, means I'm going for SD vs NO. What a dream! Also a replay of the Wembley game last year.

Re: NFL Chat 2 : Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:01 pm  

El Pac Carnegie wrote:

Who is everyone fancying for the Superbowl at the moment? I'm seriously tempted to get on the Cards to return to the big show but New Orleans will be a big obstacle. Vikings are looking good but haven't had a testing schedule. From the AFC it's impossible to make a call. Indy are looking awesome, NE will get it together when it matters and San Diego have the firepower. The Bengals probably don't have enough for me and of course if the Steelers sneak in they can't be discounted.

I like us. (I know i sound like i just pick my team for everything ).

We have the defence to do so and the offence to do so with sacks happening increasingly less, more balance and winning in the process. I think we could match anybody point for point. Our achilles heel is special teams, which is terrible(See the Vikings game for details) and penalties.

I think NO are going to be pretty difficult to beat though. They have an excellent team and are IMO better than the 18-1 Patriots by a clear distance, especially on D.

Vikes equally look good but i fancy they will fade and an AP fumble to cost them a play-off game.

I'll go for the Saints (other than us) in the NFC

Patriots are looking shaky and unless Bill can get his hands on a new Sony Digicam, then i can see them exiting wildcard round.

Jags, i'd love to see them do it, and they can, but they are far to inconsistent.

Indy are resting players from next week. That will be a bad move and lose momentum.

I'll go for San Diego from the AFC.

I'd love Packers vs Jags though!!

Re: NFL Chat 2 : Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:17 pm  

ST_CONROY wrote:

I like us. (I know i sound like i just pick my team for everything ).

We have the defence to do so and the offence to do so with sacks happening increasingly less, more balance and winning in the process. I think we could match anybody point for point. Our achilles heel is special teams, which is terrible(See the Vikings game for details) and penalties.

I think NO are going to be pretty difficult to beat though. They have an excellent team and are IMO better than the 18-1 Patriots by a clear distance, especially on D.

Vikes equally look good but i fancy they will fade and an AP fumble to cost them a play-off game.

I'll go for the Saints (other than us) in the NFC

Patriots are looking shaky and unless Bill can get his hands on a new Sony Digicam, then i can see them exiting wildcard round.

Jags, i'd love to see them do it, and they can, but they are far to inconsistent.

Indy are resting players from next week. That will be a bad move and lose momentum.

I'll go for San Diego from the AFC.

I'd love Packers vs Jags though!!

You'll get to the championship game.

Re: NFL Chat 2 : Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:28 am  

Well, 5 left in the 3rd and the Steelers are gettin whipped by a team who's QB can't pass more than 5 yds. Ben has been sacked 6 times and although the scores only 13-3 the Steelers aren't in the game. I reckon this is the final nail I'm the Steelers 2009 coffin.