Re: Formula One 2013 : Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:36 pm  

ST_CONROY wrote:

Exactly. Or why didn't Webber's engineer tell him that it appeared Vettel was ignoring the instructions (presumably he never turned his engine down/backed off etc) and to be aware, if for no reason but to avoid any collision? -admittedly I suppose this could have happened but we didn't hear it.

As you say much tougher questions could have been asked. Horner should be sacked as he clearly cannot control his own team, and all he had to say to Seb was "this is silly".

Well he won't get sacked because as Andy Gilder pointed out above, it's the result that Marko and Matterschitz will have preferred. But the spotlight and questions should be on him as much as Vettel, he shouldn't just be given the easy ride of tutting and shaking his head at Vettel's actions like he's some kid on the naughty step and all will be forgetten by China.

The thing is, if Webber does leave Red Bull at the end of the season then who do they get? Who wants to step up and clearly play second fiddle (much like Alonso/Massa at Ferrari). Sure they'll be able to get someone, but will it be as good as it could've been.

Re: Formula One 2013 : Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:26 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

Well he won't get sacked because as Andy Gilder pointed out above, it's the result that Marko and Matterschitz will have preferred. But the spotlight and questions should be on him as much as Vettel, he shouldn't just be given the easy ride of tutting and shaking his head at Vettel's actions like he's some kid on the naughty step and all will be forgetten by China.

The thing is, if Webber does leave Red Bull at the end of the season then who do they get? Who wants to step up and clearly play second fiddle (much like Alonso/Massa at Ferrari). Sure they'll be able to get someone, but will it be as good as it could've been.

Completely agree he won't for that exact reason but IMO he should be.

I think there would be a fair few drivers who fancy a chance at Red Bull. Hoping, probably wrongly, that they would get a fair chance. Certainly I couldn't see any title contender going there.

Re: Formula One 2013 : Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:10 pm  

ST_CONROY wrote:

Completely agree he won't for that exact reason but IMO he should be.

I think there would be a fair few drivers who fancy a chance at Red Bull. Hoping, probably wrongly, that they would get a fair chance. Certainly I couldn't see any title contender going there.

They'll get themselves a clear '2nd' driver, but that could cost them a constructors title or a driver good enough to do a 'job' for Vettel in the final few races of a title chase.

Re: Formula One 2013 : Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:51 pm  

Typical German

Re: Formula One 2013 : Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:46 am  

Vettel once again proves what an utter turd he is.

The comment 'It was a mistake' is sick making. Touching the grass is a mistake, taking a corner wrongly is a mistake but lining up a team mate for laps when you have been told not too isn't that is poop housing and I'd like to hope that the big Aussie put the whiny little German on his ass.

Re: Formula One 2013 : Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:09 pm  

As Gary Anderson points out on his BBC Sport column today, Horner has to take a share of responsibility here.

Ross Brawn told both Mercedes drivers to hold station, and both of them (however reluctantly) obeyed his instructions, in no small part because he's Ross Brawn and what he says carries some authority to it. He's been there, seen it, done it and worked successfully with some of the biggest personalities in the sport.

If Horner had gone on team radio and said "Seb, under no circumstances do you overtake Mark, understood?" then Vettel would have been backed into a corner. He would either have had to disobey a direct order from his team principal, or stay where he was.

Instead, there was a coded message about turning down the engine mode and the "Seb, this is getting silly now" message that sounded like a teacher chastising a five year old. Enough ambiguity that Vettel felt he could exploit it and ride out the ensuing media storm with a weasel apology..

Simply, Horner has no authority at Red Bull. He's good with the media (an aspect that neither Matterschitz or Marko want to get involved with on a day to day basis) and can be trusted to tow the company line, but he's got no input to designing the car and no clout when it comes to disciplining and controlling his drivers. He's a figurehead, no more than that.

Re: Formula One 2013 : Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:16 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

Ross Brawn told both Mercedes drivers to hold station, and both of them (however reluctantly) obeyed his instructions, in no small part because he's Ross Brawn and what he says carries some authority to it. He's been there, seen it, done it and worked successfully with some of the biggest personalities in the sport.

Some form of praise should be given to Rosberg for his part in all of this. What was stopping him from ignoring team instructions and going in pursuit of Hamilton, who from his body language on the podium knew he was the slower driver? I'm sure Rosberg get his chance again.

Webber's time at Red Bull is marked. I believe he is out of contract at the end of the year. A move to either Lotus or Ferrari could be on the cards, as both Grosjean and Massa's contracts are also up at the end of 2013. So is Rosberg's, but I think Mercedes will stick with him unless he demands a move.

Who comes into that second driver's role for Red Bull could be interesting. Vergne and Ricciardo would jump at the chance, but I think Red Bull would want a better quality of driver. They won't get that if they can't demonstrate the second driver will get a fair crack at the World Championship.

Re: Formula One 2013 : Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:06 am  

Have to agree with Ecclestone if I'm honest.

Re: Formula One 2013 : Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:16 am  

It could hurt Vettle more in the end as it will probably be Webber's last year with RedBull and if he's out of the title race near the end of the season he might not be willing to help Vettle to win the title.As for Horner last weekend has shown he's just a mouthpiece for the team with no proper control over his drivers.

Re: Formula One 2013 : Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:16 pm  

First off, I don't know jack about F1 ("Same as football then", someone will say).

This Vettel-Webber thing. Is it a genuine scandal around the rest of the world, or is it the English media bias that is favouring the convict over the German?

During the race was Vettel behind Webber and overtook him to win the race? If that's the case couldn't Webber have just raced him as a competitor?

When Schumacher was F1 King at Ferrari, would Ferrari have ever ordered him to let his team mate take the first place? If they didn't, wouldn't Schumacher have done the same as Vettel if he was getting those orders?

From an non-F1 fan it all seems like a fuss over nothing to me. Vettel is the World Champion Driver. I'd kind of expect him to fight an order to let his team mate win if it meant it could cost him the title.

Vettel's said that Webber has never backed him that much anyway. Is there any truth in that or is he just re-writing history?