Re: Super Cricket- England in SA : Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:26 pm  

On the balance of play we would have been very fortunate to win the series and would have risked becoming over confident. 1-1 would have been an acceptable result before the series started. A mixed bag of performances, whch reflects our current level.

Re: Super Cricket- England in SA : Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:33 pm  

Sexual Deviant wrote:

Nice to see the batsmen's union spokesman Atherton citing South Africa's superior pace attack as the difference in this game. Of course it was, Athers. The batsmen should shoulder none of the blame at all. 100%.

Of course the batsman have to shoulder most of the blame for this inept performance.....However, I think Atherton's point is quite correct in the fact that, as a batsman, during this present match especially, which pace attack would you choose to face, for an easier time of it??

Our pace attack has zero hostility at present....Without Flintoff and an in form Harmison, all we have is 3 guys who need conditions 100% in their favour before they even border on being half decent.....SA had Steyn & Morkel, who for the last 2 tests have looked the most potent and dangerous pair in World cricket.

As I pointed out at the start of this series, until we find a serious World class bowler, then great displays like the second test are going to be quite rare, and we are going to spend most of our time watching mediocre stuff like we served up for most of this series.

Re: Super Cricket- England in SA : Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:18 pm  

The Angry Pirate wrote:

Our pace attack has zero hostility at present....Without Flintoff and an in form Harmison, all we have is 3 guys who need conditions 100% in their favour before they even border on being half decent.....SA had Steyn & Morkel, who for the last 2 tests have looked the most potent and dangerous pair in World cricket.

As I pointed out at the start of this series, until we find a serious World class bowler, then great displays like the second test are going to be quite rare, and we are going to spend most of our time watching mediocre stuff like we served up for most of this series.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. The 1-1 result is respectable enough away to a good side, it's just a shame we saved our limpest performance until last.

Steyn isn't number 1 in the rankings for nothing and Morkel is a fearsome proposition. I saw him in a T20 match on an outground a couple of years back (Kent v Surrey at Beckenham) when I knew nothing about him. He took 1/12 in four overs and bowled as fast as anything I've ever seen, which allied to amazing accuracy and his height (around 6'6" at a guess) made him almost unplayable. I swear Geraint Jones was standing closer to the boundary rope than the stumps and on two occasions Surrey pinched a bye to a delivery that went straight into the keeper's gloves without him having to dive.

England no longer seem to have any bowler who can unsettle batsmen through sheer sustained speed, as Flintoff and the admittedly erratic Harmison could. Saj Mahmood looks pretty quick but doesn't seem to have the accuracy or consistency and really ought to have matured further by now; Steve Finn at Middlesex is a prospect, as is Stuart Meaker at Surrey, who is also a good number 8 batsman and outstanding fielder, but he's a at least one full season of county cricket away from being ready for Test cricket.

Re: Super Cricket- England in SA : Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:44 pm  

Ajmal Shazhad. You forgot Ajmal Shazhad.

Re: Super Cricket- England in SA : Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:11 pm  

Agree with a lot of what has been said here

- Ashes win
- drawn series in SA

you'd have taken that this time last year - part of me feels we've been lucky, part of me feels we 'toughed it out' and got results, top six still need to up the consistency and yes we do lack a killer bowler.

All in all though, the mentality seems to be improving, KP will be back, and the eventual emergence of Swann has been a huge bonus.

Re: Super Cricket- England in SA : Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:58 pm  

Very quiet and non-committal over whether Strauss is going to Bangladesh leads me to believe he wont be going...I think, as captain, he has to go. The only 2 players who I'd "rest" would be Collingwood and Anderson as they have been excellent and both have niggling little injuries.

Part of me thinks we should try the likes of Carberry, Denly, Moore, Sayers for the Bangladesh tour as they surely cant do any worse than this shower...the other part of me thinks we should pick this lot as a kind of penance for their inept performances!!

Re: Super Cricket- England in SA : Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:34 pm  

Sexual Deviant wrote:

Ajmal Shazhad. You forgot Ajmal Shazhad.

I didn't forget Shahzad, I just didn't place him in the 90mph+ bracket. He's certainly a Test prospect from what I've seen of him, but more similar to the likes of Anderson & Onions in terms of pace in my estimation. Maybe he's quicker than I thought. I saw him in the Yorks game at Basingstoke in August and was very impressed, although that was a slowish pitch where both batsmen & bowlers had to earn their rewards through hard work and shrewdness.

OrdsallRed wrote:

Part of me thinks we should try the likes of Carberry, Denly, Moore, Sayers for the Bangladesh tour as they surely cant do any worse than this shower...the other part of me thinks we should pick this lot as a kind of penance for their inept performances!!

We can't pick a second XI - I reckon we can only really afford to rest three or so members of our regular XI, which let's not forget has lost just two of its last 15 Tests, mostly against Australia & South Africa. I reckon Strauss & Anderson are possibly those most likely to benefit from a rest. maybe Collingwood too, who has the least to prove right now. Swann would probably benefit from a Test tour of the Subcontinent, maybe Broad too. Ideally we probably want two spinners; Rashid's patient, wristy, technically sound bating style ought to be well suited out there so get him in at seven without him having the pressure of being the sole spinner expected to destroy teams single handed when conditions are spin friendly. Pietersen needs this tour to play himself back into form after his long lay off before the SA tour, and I still feel he really ought to bat at three being our most talented and destructive batsman. I wonder whether Trott might make a good opener as he seemed a pretty cool customer until falling apart in the last two Tests. He's still inexperienced at the highest level and hasn't yet played against an Asian team in Tests. Rest Strauss & collingwood, move the rest of the middle order up a place, maybe give Carberry a go at five and Rashid at seven and Plunkett (a decent number 8 or 9 batsman) instead of Anderson and see what our options look like with a five man bowling attack.

Another major weakness which seems to plague England is our lack of a top order batsman who can bowl a bit, maybe 15 overs in an innings and chip in with a wicket. JP Duminy took eight wickets in the series just ended for not much more than 20 apiece, while Simon Katich just took three wickets in an innings for Australia against Pakistan. There are many others such as Chris Gayle, Sanath Jayasuriya and Michael Clarke. If you're only going to field four front line bowlers you need one or two of these "batting all-rounders" to back them up. Even the greatest teams of recent decades had the likes of Viv Richards and Steve Waugh to bowl ten or fifteen competent overs where necessary and break a partnership. We never seem to trust our part time bowlers with enough overs to make an impact like this. Some like Vaughan & Butcher were inhibited by injuries, but others like Collingwood, Bell, Pietersen and Hick have just never been fully utilised or trusted.

Re: Super Cricket- England in SA : Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:49 pm  

Disappointing result but overall a drawn Test series in SA and a winning the OD series has to be regarded as a success.

Re: Super Cricket- England in SA : Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:21 am  

No Strauss or Anderson for the Bangers which in Strauss case is a disgrace really. He's got 4 weeks off before the tour and won't be playing in any T20 comps after the tour so I don't see why he's not going. He's basically going to be off bar the odd game for Middlesex now for over 5 months which i just can't get! Batting can't be that physically draining

Carberry, Tredwell and Shazad in the squad with Cook captain.

Is Shazad any good? heard he's an allrounder but thats about it.

We need an allrounder capable of batting at 7. There is no way looking at Broad scratch about he'll ever be good enough for that position imo and Swann isn't a 7 either because he only plays well when he has abit of freedom.

I'd have had Bresnan in the squad and looked at playing him at 7.

Re: Super Cricket- England in SA : Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:43 am  

Squads for Bangladesh...

Test squad: A Cook (captain), I Bell, S Broad, M Carberry, P Collingwood, S Davies (wkt), G Onions, K Pietersen, L Plunkett, M Prior (wkt), A Shahzad, R Sidebottom, G Swann, J Tredwell, J Trott, L Wright.

One-day squad: A Cook (captain), T Bresnan, S Broad, P Collingwood, J Denly, E Morgan, M Prior (wkt), K Pietersen, L Plunkett, R Sidebottom, A Shahzad, G Swann, J Tredwell, J Trott, L Wright.

Only 2 spinners in the squad is a big surprise to me and no Rashid doesnt make sense. Flower has already said we'll be playing 2 spinners so to only pick 2 in the whole squad doesnt seem to make sense.

Shahzad is a big call but his batting abilities have probably swung it in his favour ahead of the likes of Woakes or Finn.