Re: Close Season Football Chat : Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:18 am  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

Rumour that Kuyt to Inter is a possibility

Wish LFC would stop getting rid of Rafas mistakes, they might be half decent soon.

Re: Close Season Football Chat : Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:34 am  

Mark wrote:

Wish LFC would stop getting rid of Rafas mistakes, they might be half decent soon.

Believe me, I'm all for Dirk going, but getting rid of Aquilani will be stupidly foolish. But, we all know, Roy's an English manager, so industry and defensive ability comes before class and technique.

Re: Steve McNamara - The Stats : Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:56 am  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

No, I don't think it's all down to luck. But how often in one youth team (I know Giggs was a year or two ahead) are there so many good players that can become the backbone of a team? Teams are usually lucky to get one a year that may become competent in the first team, never mind excel.

But on the other hand, how many clubs would have the guts to throw so many young players into the first team all together as Man Utd did in '95? IMO you have to hand it to them that they showed faith in a group of players who complemented each other to carry it over with them, and that must have gone a large way to helping them become that backbone of the team. The understanding they already had became evident reasonably quickly.

Maybe if more clubs brought players through in numbers they'd find it helped the youngsters settle into first team football more easily, rather than them having to get used to everyone and everything being completely new?

Re: Close Season Football Chat : Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:04 pm  

Mark wrote:

How were United "lucky" in becoming the countrys biggest club?

There are manor factors that helped contribute towards Man United becoming as powerful as they are that are clearly down to luck. Being in one of the biggest cities in the country with only one other club in the city is one factor beyond your control. While you scouted him out in Ireland, there's clearly a huge amount of luck involved in managing to snag the greatest ever British footballer and reaping the rewards of him being the biggest star when TV become so influential.

You were lucky that Michael Knighton managed to make such a prick of himself when he was buying the club. If he'd acted in a professional manner then he'd have probably completed the purchase. I somehow doubt a Michael Knighton run MU would be the power they are now.

It was probably luck, rather than judgement, that meant that MU held off firing Fergie when there were loud calls for him to do so.

And I think there's a huge slice of luck in being the biggest and most successful side in the country at the dawning of the Sky TV and Champions League era. You've won the league the same amount of times as the scouse filth, but IMO the financial gains from your titles wins will be worth a lot more than Liverpool got for their titles.

IMO Man United would probably be up with the biggest clubs in the country without many of these factors. But I don't think that the present day MU would be as powerful and overwhelmingly strong as they are if many of these factors hadn't occurred.

Re: Steve McNamara - The Stats : Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:21 pm  

carl_spackler wrote:

But on the other hand, how many clubs would have the guts to throw so many young players into the first team all together as Man Utd did in '95? IMO you have to hand it to them that they showed faith in a group of players who complemented each other to carry it over with them, and that must have gone a large way to helping them become that backbone of the team. The understanding they already had became evident reasonably quickly.

Maybe if more clubs brought players through in numbers they'd find it helped the youngsters settle into first team football more easily, rather than them having to get used to everyone and everything being completely new?

True, but they've not done it since. In fact only Fletcher has really become a regular first team starter (O'Shea is pretty much first reserve) since that batch came through. Does that mean the coaching has declined, or that they've just not had the players through that have been good enough? IMO, it's the latter.

Re: Steve McNamara - The Stats : Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:28 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

True, but they've not done it since. In fact only Fletcher has really become a regular first team starter (O'Shea is pretty much first reserve) since that batch came through. Does that mean the coaching has declined, or that they've just not had the players through that have been good enough? IMO, it's the latter.

There are parallels IMO between the youth development at Man Utd and that at Leeds Rhinos.

Both clubs had a large number of talented young players of a similar age coming through at once (for the Utd ones listed earlier read Sinfield, McGuire, Burrow, Diskin, Jones-Buchanan, Bailey etc).

With these players holding down regular first team spots it becomes harder for the generations behind them to make the breakthrough, particularly those who play in the same positions. So those players move on to other clubs, or stick around and play very much a reserve role.

It looks from the outside like the youth development has stalled, whereas what has actually happened is it's still producing players, just not for that club.

Re: Close Season Football Chat : Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:19 pm  

Robbie Rotten wrote:

Believe me, I'm all for Dirk going, but getting rid of Aquilani will be stupidly foolish. But, we all know, Roy's an English manager, so industry and defensive ability comes before class and technique.

Scott Parker in
Mascherano out

Re: Close Season Football Chat : Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:21 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

There are manor factors that helped contribute towards Man United becoming as powerful as they are that are clearly down to luck. Being in one of the biggest cities in the country with only one other club in the city is one factor beyond your control. While you scouted him out in Ireland, there's clearly a huge amount of luck involved in managing to snag the greatest ever British footballer and reaping the rewards of him being the biggest star when TV become so influential.

You were lucky that Michael Knighton managed to make such a prick of himself when he was buying the club. If he'd acted in a professional manner then he'd have probably completed the purchase. I somehow doubt a Michael Knighton run MU would be the power they are now.

It was probably luck, rather than judgement, that meant that MU held off firing Fergie when there were loud calls for him to do so.

And I think there's a huge slice of luck in being the biggest and most successful side in the country at the dawning of the Sky TV and Champions League era. You've won the league the same amount of times as the scouse filth, but IMO the financial gains from your titles wins will be worth a lot more than Liverpool got for their titles.

IMO Man United would probably be up with the biggest clubs in the country without many of these factors. But I don't think that the present day MU would be as powerful and overwhelmingly strong as they are if many of these factors hadn't occurred.

It's nice to know we've been lucky since the Newton Heath days. Unlucky that Chelsea have only been lucky since 2003 I guess.

Re: Close Season Football Chat : Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:19 pm  

Blame Blackburn for the ridiculous fees clubs pay now, there signing of Alan Shearer was a ridiculous amount of money.

Re: Close Season Football Chat : Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:42 pm  

Saint Viper wrote:

Blame Blackburn for the ridiculous fees clubs pay now, there signing of Alan Shearer was a ridiculous amount of money.

Hmm, have to disagree there. They paid £3.3million for him in the summer of 1992. IIRC he was their top goal scorer for the next four seasons, played a major part in them winning the Premiership, then they sold him in 1996 (a mere four years after buying him), for £15million, a profit of £11,700,000. If that's not a good bit of business then I don't know what is.