Re: The Football Chat Thread : Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:13 am  

Robbie Rotten wrote:

Come on, Dan, you know full well Torres has the all-round package. His goal versus Marseille in Europe that year, his volley versus Blackburn, he can do it all. Add to that he has pace, agility, strength, aerial prowess and quite possibly the best movement after David Villa in the world. As you mention, Rooney is a second striker, but I don't think the second striker is a great position anymore, or at least as influential as it was back in the days of Bergkamp and co. Today is about the complete '9', IMO, Torres and Drogba are the two finest 9's in world football, whilst I'd put them both in the top 5 in terms of best strikers in the world, whilst I could probably leave Rooney out of a top 10 list with a bit of thought, although it would be too controversial to post such a list on here

It wouldn't be worth the hassle of the reaction for posting such a list

I didn't mean to imply Torres wasn't the complete package, he has every element to his game a world class number '9' should have, I'd agree totally (maybe I was being biased when I said Rooney's as good). I had actually forgotten the Blackburn volley until you mentioned it, the one area I thought I had Rooney ahead of Torres and you've blown it completely out the water, cheers Rob I don't think anyone in the world plays the number '9' role as good as Drogba though, his game is virtually flawless, he'd edge Torres out for me simply because of his physical side, he's much bigger and stronger for me. Cahill plays that support or second striker role perfectly but it doesn't seem to be used like it once was, maybe the players don't come through in that mould anymore. Off top of my head I'd probably have Rooney in a top ten list in the world, he'd rank closer to ten than one. I'd rank Torres in the Villa mould, a bit more slight so maybe more agility and pace about him than Drogba whereas he's about power and strength.

You don't get too many players in that mould now, which is why it really pissed me off when our fans called for Yakubu to be sold and constantly have a go for being 'lazy' the fact is we, until Sunday, simply didn't play to his style, finally we did and look at the difference. How any fans could want rid is beyond me, he's a goalscorer and a fine one at that. He has power, not gifted with pace but isn't slow. Only thing he lacked on Sunday was a goal, if we give him the service he needs he can be as effective as anyone. His hold up play is superb, he has strength (I could watch that shoulder barge on Meireles all day!) and power in abundance but he won't run the channel, why the fook should he.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:22 am  

PAUL M wrote:

You seriously believe the best clubs won't want Rooney, you will be proved wrong.

Already happened. Jose said he would be interested.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:24 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Where is Torres going? He is clearly going to be leaving January 1st as well as Rooney.

What do you think about Torres at the moment. I am not convinced that he's not finished. Since his injuries last season he hasn't made the return to physical condition he should have done. He was injured well before the world cup and had time to play well there. He was terrible, the most undeserved world cup medal in the history of the event. This season for Liverpool he has been similarly off colour despite what should have been a good off season for him. He looks sluggish in games, always just late for the ball, not beating the men he used to and completely lacking the sharpness and pace that made him what he was. He looks very much like Michael Owen to me now, clearly never going to get it back.

If he goes to another club and returns to his form of the previous season it means he's been incredibly childish and disrespectful to Liverpool IMO.

As for Wazza, he's clearly got a club lined up already. Paul Merson was on Sky Sports News tonight and he said something along the lines of, "When you are the biggest name, the only big name, in the biggest and most successful club in the country recently, you don't go into the Manager's office and tell them you are leaving". He went on to say he's convinced that he's already agreed his destination as it would just be a stupid thing to do if he hadn't as Real Madrid might not want/need/have the budget for him, Barca might not fancy him, City might want to do without the mega-controversy it would cause and the disruption to their already over populated squad. He could end up without a club to go to and have made himself a massive target for abuse from the fans and having ruined his relationship with the United players and staff.

I just can't see him playing in Spain. I don't think he's got it in him to adapt to the culture change properly. He's still ultra close to his scruffy scouse family. But the only possible destinations in this country are Chelsea and City. United would be very reluctant to sell to either club. I just hope that it's not just his agent filling his head with angry thoughts in order to bump up his commission for the move rather than just a contract extension with United.

Merson actually said "the biggest club in world football"

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:27 am  

Robbie Rotten wrote:

I dunno where Torres is going. Teams have to pay the cash first, which is unlikely in January, whilst I still feel he has enough patience in him to leave it 'til the summer.

But, with regards to his own personal form, I see a player that found a 'groove' in the way he played at Liverpool, but he's never been allowed to get into that groove for several reasons: injury, Steven Gerrard being starved of any kind of form due to an inept midfield, and, more recently, playing in a side that he quite clearly doesn't fit in. Torres isn't Bobby Zamora or Carlton Cole, he is, in spite of his strength and size, a player who prefers it on the deck and through the channels to run in. His own personal game is suffering at the moment, but I feel that is more down to the team. He is being starved of support, so much is being expected from him and no one else is stepping up in an attacking sense, which means more is being heaped on his shoulders, when he really needs less so he can get back into the form where he can handle more expectation. It's just poor form and a massive lack of confidence, fitness and support from teammates. We aren't playing to his strengths, which makes things even harder. He'll be back to his best, I dunno where he'd go if he left here - most probably Chelsea if they would pay - but I hope we can do enough in January/2011 to convince him we will compete for - and hopefully win - trophies.

Also, I don't think he's like Owen, purely because he has so much more than Owen did. Owen relied purely on his pace and movement, but Torres has more strength, height, skill and a much better all-round game IMO. I don't think he's lost pace, that will come back, he's had similar phases of form before (remember when you KO'd us out of the FA cup and he was woefully off the pace?), this is similar, only it's taking a lot longer for him than previous times due to the team and manager.

Torres biggest weakness is that he sometimes tries to take on 3 or 4 on his own when he has options available. Very much a head down type of player. I would place him slightly above Rooney though and a notch behind Drogba. I don't think van persie get's the plaudits he deserves over here.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:32 am  

he obviously read's rlfans...... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... orres.html

he obviously read's rlfans...... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... orres.html

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:16 am  

Nikaed wrote: he obviously read's rlfans...... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... orres.html A quote from that piece reads... Similarly, any funds raised from his sale will be ploughed directly back into luring another A-list player to the club. We heard exactly the same when Naldo was sold...don't believe that one iota.

Nikaed wrote: he obviously read's rlfans...... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... orres.html A quote from that piece reads... Similarly, any funds raised from his sale will be ploughed directly back into luring another A-list player to the club. We heard exactly the same when Naldo was sold...don't believe that one iota.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:49 am  

Wilshere is just pure class. Barry out Jack in. This must happen.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:01 am  

It seems to me to be inconceiveable that NESV would willingly (or apparently willingly) sell Torres so soon into their ownership. Particularly to United. Wouldnt that immediately cast them as Hicks & Gillette Mark 2 as far as the Liverpool fans are concerned? Surely they would need Torres to do a Rooney on an epic scale to allow them to get away with that? Is that likely?

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:08 am  

I reckon that unless he gets assurances of mass investment in players that Torres will be off at the end of the season if not January.

The New Yanks don't seem particularly interested in spending too much money, they've already mentioned £40m as the ceiling. That isn't enough for one world class player, never mind the 4 or 5 that Liverpool need realistically to be a title winning side.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:24 am  

Robbie Rotten wrote:

Juve have apparently signed half of the world XI according to the Italian press, but they're not going anywhere fast IMO.

Torres, IMO, is just a far greater player - when on form - than Rooney. I just don't see the complete physical figure, the pure striker's instinct, the ability to pose every threat to the opposition. What I see is a striker who tries hard without express pace, without imposing height, without the natural predatory instinct and without the discipline to control himself. In Rooney's favour, he plays in a position/role that I hate, I hate small strikers and I hate 'second strikers'.

I find it too difficult to compare Rooney and Torres. Torres to me is an out and out striker, someone who feeds off good service and whose first instinct is wanting to score. Rooney is more of an alround attacking player who helps to build up and link play aswell as trying to score goals.

I don't know what the problem is with Torres right now, partly a lack of confidence after his persistent injuries and lack of goals in recent months. I also don't think he has good enough players with him at Liverpool and feel his heart might have gone from the club a bit with all the off field turmoil and that might also be affecting him. He may feel let down by the lack of investment/quality in the squad. I certainly don't think he's finished but he needs to play a season with no injuries and start scoring again as right now he seems to be constantly picking up injuries and as a result he only looks a shadow of his former self.

I thought as poor as he was during the game against Utd there were signs of his quality on the odd occasion. I'd love him at Utd but we had our chance before he signed for Liverpool and never took it.