: Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:32 am  

jonh wrote:

I will bet you either Leeds or Saints will win all the trophies again this year.

Yes this is probably going to happen, as it has happened over the last 3 or 4 years. What you must ask yourself is why is this happenening if we have a salary cap ?

There are several other sides that have the resources and spending power of these two clubs but at the moment they can't get anywhere near them.

Wigan should not by crying like spoilt little brats because they cant spend more than anyone else. They should be rolling their sleeves up and working hard trying to emulate Leeds and Saints.

Here is a pointer to start you off, would Leeds or saints have paid such a huge salary to the clown of a prop forward that came from Bradford ?

You see what the salary cap does, is to show clubs in their true light. When everyone has to work on an equal basis it sorts the wheat from the chaff.
Salary caps will bring us progress in the game, it will identify the poor organisations that are inept at running rugby clubs and it will identify the smartest organisations that can get the best out of a fixed budget.

: Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:36 am  

Prince Buster wrote:

Yes this is probably going to happen, as it has happened over the last 3 or 4 years. What you must ask yourself is why is this happenening if we have a salary cap ?

There are several other sides that have the resources and spending power of these two clubs but at the moment they can't get anywhere near them.

Wigan should not by crying like spoilt little brats because they cant spend more than anyone else. They should be rolling their sleeves up and working hard trying to emulate Leeds and Saints.

Here is a pointer to start you off, would Leeds or saints have paid such a huge salary to the clown of a prop forward that came from Bradford ?

Well not a Prop forward but I can think of a current Leeds player on a high salary that used to wear the red amber and black.

: Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:39 am  

jonh wrote:

No, my plan would be to relate the cap directly to turnover.

I would also like to see a rule that meant players produced from the Academy counted less towards the cap, for example only 70% of the wage contributed towards the cap, 50% if they made international selection.

I would also like to see overseas players wages count extra towards the cap maybe 120%.

This would force the hand of cliubs to invest in both youth and comercial viability, it would also ensure clubs did everything in there power to maximise there turnover and junior development.

You'll have to explain to me how this will prevent players from moving to Union. No matter how much RL can pay a player, RU clubs have far more money at their disposal than RL clubs so, surely, they'll just up the ante and offer even more to our top players than their RL club can afford.

: Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:39 am  

Ewwenorfolk wrote:

Well not a Prop forward but I can think of a current Leeds player on a high salary that used to wear the red amber and black.

Yes and if it is the same one I am thinking of he earns his wage unlike the coward of the county at wigan.

: Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:05 pm  

Kevs Head wrote:

You'll have to explain to me how this will prevent players from moving to Union. No matter how much RL can pay a player, RU clubs have far more money at their disposal than RL clubs so, surely, they'll just up the ante and offer even more to our top players than their RL club can afford.

Exactly true.

The reasons for staying in league will include:
money
family
friends
pride
the game itself
loyalty

The reasons for leaving would include:
money
the chance to play on the big stage (6-nations etc).

We cannot match the profile of the Union game right now (and that is amuch to do with bias in the press as anything else, but that's another matter), and if we try and match Union for spending power we will come second - by a long, long way.

If Union fancy a punt at a League player, think he's good enough to make it in their game, and can convince him that he can make the big stage - then he's gone. But MOST players will just use Union to negotiate a better deal, then, on balance, they will weigh up the pro's and con's and sign with a League club on a better deal. It's the way of the world - we may not like it, but we're strong enough to survive it - as we are now anyway!

: Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:05 pm  

jonh wrote:

Would you pay £20 to watch a competative amateur game?

I could ring my mates up and get a competative game on in the morning would you pay £20 to watch it.

No silly response just a straight yes or no and a serious line to back it up either way.

If you want a serious response, ask a serious question.

If rugby league were a competitive amateur sport, I would still pay to watch Trinity, because that's the team I support.

I would pay sod all to watch you and your mates, in fact, I would expect to be paid to attend, and how much you managed to raise would determine whether or not I even bothered.

: Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:52 pm  

Having read the arguments i have to agree with Jon.

: Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:22 pm  

The Clan wrote:

Losing Smith to rugby union bothers me!

I agree with John that we have precious few young players who have already demonstrated their ability to be a gamebreaker at the highest level. In my opinion Smith has already done this and is only going to get better.

it is a big problem

it is almost universally accepted that we are struggling for backs in this country. people moaning about wellens gardner etc being the best we have yet also thinking we can afford to lose players like smith and ashton is a strange one

the answer is to take players developed by that club [i.e signed before 18 and makes debut for that club ignoring loans] off the cap and cut the cap in half

: Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:35 pm  

Kevs Head wrote:

You'll have to explain to me how this will prevent players from moving to Union. No matter how much RL can pay a player, RU clubs have far more money at their disposal than RL clubs so, surely, they'll just up the ante and offer even more to our top players than their RL club can afford.

thats not really true

: Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:52 pm  

SBR wrote:

I disagree. The games are generally of a higher quality. Uncompetitive matches are low quality matches.

Does the sc guarantee competitiveness? How many points did Leigh get in sl under the sc? Leeds have won 3 of the last 5 gfs and competed in 4 of the last 5 saints have won the last 4 challenge cups outside the traditional big 4 only 1 other club has qualified for the gf in all of so we still 60 points put on some teams and we are still waiting for a smaller team to do anything of note

How? I've already explained some of the benefits of the cap and the harm that removing the cap would do.

And you have ignored the harm having it in it's current form does to the game in terms of it's evolution by protecting faillings and punishing success and ignored the benefits of restructuring it because you are struck with the same self interest you accuse Jonh of