Re: Speedsters : Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:41 am  

Well Billy Boston, Tom Van Vollenhoven, Mick Sullivan and more were not small and could tackle. They could have played in any era .

Re: Speedsters : Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:50 am  

And whilst we are at it they did not just run fast. They could step off either foot, utilise body swerve and hand off, change of pace etc. And remember with the benefit oh modern training methods would perhaps have been even better. Next people will be saying modern day players are better than Nei Fox, Alex Murphy, Alan Hardisty, Vince Karalius , Derek Turner etc etc. Aye the days when we beat the Aussies !

[PopTart]

Re: Speedsters : Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:28 am  

It's impossible to compare.
For those you mention, I'm certain Neil Fox would be a major force in the modern game playing exactly the same game with the same physique. However, even though he is one of my heroes, Derek Turner would be less likely to be as successful as he was in the 60s.
I'm sure he would be great if he was born in this era because his mental toughness and will to win would stand him apart but he couldn't play the same game he did, and he wasn't that big either in weight so would be pushed about like an Annakin. And that is hard to say. Same would apply to Henry Cooper or

I have the pleasure of spending a lot of time with the legends who watch Wakefield. I was with Ken Rollin, Ian Brooke and I asked them if they would like playing the game today. Ken said the opportunities are massive in comparison to what he earned and it would be great to play in this era with the modern training and no one knocking your head off after you pass. He said he thought it would suit his style of play too, but he would have to train differently to be stronger.
Ian Brooke said he'd like to as well but said his only request was that Don Fox was in his team. He said he thought he would be perfect for the modern game and said he would score tries for fun outside him as second row.
Neil just smiled and nodded at what the others were saying. (He knew he'd be great!)

Re: Speedsters : Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:35 pm  

thebeagle wrote:

And whilst we are at it they did not just run fast. They could step off either foot, utilise body swerve and hand off, change of pace etc. And remember with the benefit oh modern training methods would perhaps have been even better. Next people will be saying modern day players are better than Nei Fox, Alex Murphy, Alan Hardisty, Vince Karalius , Derek Turner etc etc. Aye the days when we beat the Aussies !

For heavens sake read posts properly - I clearly state there were exceptions, there always are!

Of course the players you name would probably make it today in one form or another, class remains constant. Some of the wingers from that time would do just as well today but that doesn't alter the fact that at the time the Wingers roll was nowhere near as involved as it is today.

Finally you've managed to contradict your own outrage - just as it's silly to suggest all players of yester year would fail today it's equally mind numbingly daft to suggest those players were all better than there modern day counterparts. It's utterly subjective for a start. Some modern day players are better than some of those you suggest especially the Aussies and some are not. For a start Sam Burgess pre-union was a lot better than Turner in every single aspect of his game, doesn't make Turner a bad player - on the other hand Alex Murphy was and probably still is better than any current SL H/B however in reality he'd probably struggle to stay on the pitch because much of his skill was the type of gamesmanship no longer tolerated.

The point stands, as a modern winger it's not possible to reasonably compare TJ to a winger from the 1970's other than both are/were good in very different ways. I've watched RL all my life starting in the early 70's and have enjoyed it all but I'm not so constipated with nostalgia that I don't recognise how much more legally physical and intense it is now compared to then which in turn will always make the crafty H/B etc a bit of a thing of the past.

Re: Speedsters : Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:51 pm  

Read your own post Vasty. You said wingers of yesteryear were only 'dandies' whose only role was to run fast and you infered they could not tackle . Additionally I have not once denigrated the ability of today's wingers . Yes I think Tom Johnstone has tremendous ability and potential. The Aussie winger Ferguson is tremendous . I admire Burgess , Makinson and others.

Re: Speedsters : Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:59 pm  

Oh and If we are 'dropping names' I sit near Neil (who I have known for 40 years), Ken Rollin, Brooky and Harold Poynton with whom I too have had similar conversations re . past v present .

Re: Speedsters : Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:24 pm  

thebeagle wrote:

Read your own post Vasty. You said wingers of yesteryear were only 'dandies' whose only role was to run fast and you infered they could not tackle . Additionally I have not once denigrated the ability of today's wingers . Yes I think Tom Johnstone has tremendous ability and potential. The Aussie winger Ferguson is tremendous . I admire Burgess , Makinson and others.

Then read it again because I do clearly state there were exceptions nor do I say they were "only" dandies and by dandies I mean entertainers. Nor did I say they didn't tackle I said not as much as they do now - no way did the amount of traffic go down the wings as it does today imho.

You clearly did denigrate modern players though I'm sure it want intentional. It was you that trotted out the cliche not me.

Different times different game imo and best not to compare the two which was the point I was making and like yourself the trap I fell into.

Re: Speedsters : Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:28 pm  

thebeagle wrote:

Oh and If we are 'dropping names' I sit near Neil (who I have known for 40 years), Ken Rollin, Brooky and Harold Poynton with whom I too have had similar conversations re . past v present .

How the hell am I name dropping, that appears to be you and you alone and what has that list to do with anything - join the 21st century it's not that bad.

Re: Speedsters : Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:18 pm  

No not you there Vasty it was Pop Tart who mentioned Foxy and co. Was not clear , I admit.

Re: Speedsters : Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:26 pm  

thebeagle wrote:

No not you there Vasty it was Pop Tart who mentioned Foxy and co. Was not clear , I admit.

Fine lets move on.