Re: Stadium and other issues : Fri Dec 23, 2022 6:27 pm  

dboy wrote:

sarge1 wrote:

Trojan Horse wrote:

Dunkirk Spirit wrote:

PopTart wrote:

Where does it say IMG aren't including stadia in their criteria?

Paragraph from a report by IMG, 16/12/20
The bit about “it isn’t about building a new stadium “, I admit it’s a bit ambiguous.

I don’t think it’s similar at all (to licensing). We are not trying to find 15 clubs that fit into a league,” Dwyer said.

“It’s the criteria. From a learning one, the model that we created needs to be objective, transparent and clear to everyone and not subjective.

“It (licensing) was based on business plans rather than actuals. One of the challenges was that people weren’t sticking to those plans.

“We are looking at what you have actually done. It isn’t about planning to build a new stadium.”

I’d say we will be looked upon favourably then.

Academy Elite licence (the original not the extended pity Cas Tigers got after failing to meet deadline)
The most profitable club in the league (run well as a business/financials)
Investment of 12 million in stadia and pitch/etc.
Owning own stadium.
A good interactive community department who work well with charities and schools.


There’s a lot to be positive about and hopefully all the above we will be strong in. We may be less attractive in terms of a couple other aspects like attendance. But we are still set apart from those in league below and there’s room to grow in that regard.

Just need to keep the momentum and keep striving for improvement.

The new east stand opening should be a big event. I’d be looking to set up some pre match/half time entertainment and having a RWB theme.

So regarding ‘owning own stadium’ how much of the WMDC loan to purchase the stadium has been repaid?

That's not how property ownership and mortgages work.

Until WT default, they own the ground.

It’s not a mortgage, it’s a loan for £3.15m secured against the ground which had a value of £1.7m. Terms are 15 years and interest 2.5%
When the upgrade is complete the ground will be estimated at around the same amount as the loan.
In the first year the repayments should have been around £215,000
If Trin default on payments, WMDC can repossess and either demolish and sell on, or run the ground as a community project.
My question was, are the loan repayments currently being maintained, or don’t we know?

Re: Stadium and other issues : Fri Dec 23, 2022 6:28 pm  

dboy wrote:

sarge1 wrote:

Trojan Horse wrote:

Dunkirk Spirit wrote:

PopTart wrote:

Where does it say IMG aren't including stadia in their criteria?

Paragraph from a report by IMG, 16/12/20
The bit about “it isn’t about building a new stadium “, I admit it’s a bit ambiguous.

I don’t think it’s similar at all (to licensing). We are not trying to find 15 clubs that fit into a league,” Dwyer said.

“It’s the criteria. From a learning one, the model that we created needs to be objective, transparent and clear to everyone and not subjective.

“It (licensing) was based on business plans rather than actuals. One of the challenges was that people weren’t sticking to those plans.

“We are looking at what you have actually done. It isn’t about planning to build a new stadium.”

I’d say we will be looked upon favourably then.

Academy Elite licence (the original not the extended pity Cas Tigers got after failing to meet deadline)
The most profitable club in the league (run well as a business/financials)
Investment of 12 million in stadia and pitch/etc.
Owning own stadium.
A good interactive community department who work well with charities and schools.


There’s a lot to be positive about and hopefully all the above we will be strong in. We may be less attractive in terms of a couple other aspects like attendance. But we are still set apart from those in league below and there’s room to grow in that regard.

Just need to keep the momentum and keep striving for improvement.

The new east stand opening should be a big event. I’d be looking to set up some pre match/half time entertainment and having a RWB theme.

So regarding ‘owning own stadium’ how much of the WMDC loan to purchase the stadium has been repaid?

That's not how property ownership and mortgages work.

Until WT default, they own the ground.

It’s not a mortgage, it’s a loan for £3.15m secured against the ground which had a value of £1.7m. Terms are 15 years and interest 2.5%
When the upgrade is complete the ground will be estimated at around the same amount as the loan.
In the first year the repayments should have been around £215,000
If Trin default on payments, WMDC can repossess and either demolish and sell on, or run the ground as a community project.
My question was, are the loan repayments currently being maintained, or don’t we know?

Re: Stadium and other issues : Fri Dec 23, 2022 7:13 pm  

sarge1 wrote:

dboy wrote:

sarge1 wrote:

Trojan Horse wrote:

Dunkirk Spirit wrote:

PopTart wrote:

Where does it say IMG aren't including stadia in their criteria?

Paragraph from a report by IMG, 16/12/20
The bit about “it isn’t about building a new stadium “, I admit it’s a bit ambiguous.

I don’t think it’s similar at all (to licensing). We are not trying to find 15 clubs that fit into a league,” Dwyer said.

“It’s the criteria. From a learning one, the model that we created needs to be objective, transparent and clear to everyone and not subjective.

“It (licensing) was based on business plans rather than actuals. One of the challenges was that people weren’t sticking to those plans.

“We are looking at what you have actually done. It isn’t about planning to build a new stadium.”

I’d say we will be looked upon favourably then.

Academy Elite licence (the original not the extended pity Cas Tigers got after failing to meet deadline)
The most profitable club in the league (run well as a business/financials)
Investment of 12 million in stadia and pitch/etc.
Owning own stadium.
A good interactive community department who work well with charities and schools.


There’s a lot to be positive about and hopefully all the above we will be strong in. We may be less attractive in terms of a couple other aspects like attendance. But we are still set apart from those in league below and there’s room to grow in that regard.

Just need to keep the momentum and keep striving for improvement.

The new east stand opening should be a big event. I’d be looking to set up some pre match/half time entertainment and having a RWB theme.

So regarding ‘owning own stadium’ how much of the WMDC loan to purchase the stadium has been repaid?

That's not how property ownership and mortgages work.

Until WT default, they own the ground.

It’s not a mortgage, it’s a loan for £3.15m secured against the ground which had a value of £1.7m. Terms are 15 years and interest 2.5%
When the upgrade is complete the ground will be estimated at around the same amount as the loan.
In the first year the repayments should have been around £215,000
If Trin default on payments, WMDC can repossess and either demolish and sell on, or run the ground as a community project.
My question was, are the loan repayments currently being maintained, or don’t we know?

You're splitting hairs over the arrangement being a loan/mortgage.

The loan is arranged and underwritten by WMDC - they are essentially guarantors.

Whilst ever the loan is serviced, the club own and control the ground.

There is nothing in the ether to suggest anything other than full compliance with the repayment terms. The club is well run, in profit and Michael Carter is on record as saying the club is debt free (not withstanding ongoing/rolling operational debts).

Are you suggesting the club haven't been paying their loan payments?

Re: Stadium and other issues : Sat Dec 24, 2022 9:48 am  

sarge1 wrote:

My question was, are the loan repayments currently being maintained, or don’t we know?

We being who exactly, a trinity fan showing slight concern over whether the club can service the debt for the ground mortgage wise or a loan, or an outsider whose can't even talk about the development at Cas as there isn't anything to talk about, and at best can only dream about what's happening at Belle Vue.

Re: Stadium and other issues : Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:17 am  

chissitt wrote:

We being who exactly, a trinity fan showing slight concern over whether the club can service the debt for the ground mortgage wise or a loan, or an outsider whose can't even talk about the development at Cas as there isn't anything to talk about, and at best can only dream about what's happening at Belle Vue.

[/quote]

He's not a trinity fan, he's a cas fan, clutching at straws and following up on the current nut job forum's theory of "creative accountancy" in wakefields recently published financial results

Re: Stadium and other issues : Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:50 am  

vastman wrote:

Out of interest, have you dropped JM an e-mail?
I'm not being a smart bum, but JM would be the first to admit he's an accountant not a property developer. So he possibly won't know any of this, and although MS may be a decent company, even the best tend not to go out of their way to give money back, if you get my drift.
Might mean nothing, but having worked with JM for a bit I've found him very open to suggestions and advice. Be careful though, he has a knack of getting you involved, so you may be dealing with MS before you know it

I very much doubt that JM or WT will be sourcing any of the building materials, 99.99% sure this will be down to the main contractor, so don't think that would be of any benefit, saying that, although we turnovers around £6m we are small in terms of builders merchants, JTD round the corner in brockholes does £10m and we both just service the Honley/Holmefirth area, our buying power (and subsequent selling prices) are nowhere near the likes of Travis Perkins or any of the Grafton or Wolsey group of companies.
Saying all that my voluntary and financial support of WT ceased at the end of 2021 and I'm not currently motivated enough at this time to re-ignite that, having been very much a part of the community trust volunteers, PDRL/LDRL player and volunteer, player sponsor, season ticket holder for 20+ years and club supporter, I'd seen enough to make me want to step back, even though one of my sons still works for the trust, I have very little enthusiasm to again throw my hat in the ring.
For irony's sake, I'm currently sat on my settee wearing my WT PDRL training shorts with a WT top on. I still support WT playing squad, just not willing to go that bit further like I had for previous 14 years

Re: Stadium and other issues : Sun Dec 25, 2022 12:05 pm  

A few pics from yesterday. Concrete terracing going in on the North Stand.

A few pics from yesterday. Concrete terracing going in on the North Stand.

[PopTart]

Re: Stadium and other issues : Sun Dec 25, 2022 2:32 pm  

Really excited about how this will look when finished and how quickly they are building it.

Re: Stadium and other issues : Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:43 pm  

All of a sudden, the North Stand refurb starts to make a lot of sense.

Re: Stadium and other issues : Mon Dec 26, 2022 6:11 pm  

dboy wrote:

All of a sudden, the North Stand refurb starts to make a lot of sense.

Think it shows just how inadequate the old terracing was. The sight-lines will be fantastic.