CULTURE? : Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:40 pm  

Culture has been a buzz word around the club since Tony Smith took over. Yet there is little to no evidence of a culture change on the pitch. You could've picked the best 17 amateur players in the city to pull on a jersey on Good Friday and they would have shown 100% more passion than that shower or a performance in the first 40. Back in August 2023 Tony Smith was implying we were making progress https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/tony-smith-opens-up-culture-8699668 Tony is now coming out with statements like 'we need to be angry' What next? 'We need to learn how to score more than the opposition' 'We need to stop letting tries in' 'We need to be fitter' Culture at Hull FC has been questioned for many many years, even back in 2002 Shaun McCrae famously stated there was a 'CANCER' within the club, alluding to poor culture. In the last 20+ years we have had some great squads, good squads and some average squads. We have had good coaches and not so good coaches. We have flirted with success via the challenge cup but never won a grand final. One thing that has been pretty consistent is a sense of underachievement in the majority of those seasons I would suggest. Clubs like Salford & Castleford, Hull KR & even Huddersfield have had seasons where they overachieve based on pre-season perceptions. I cannot recall Hull FC overachieving aside from maybe one season in the league. Maybe 'culture change' should be changed to 'lose the ego' ?? The club in the last 20 years has had many false dawns, expectations raised by big name signings or changes of coaches. The club needs to lose its ego and the internal perception that it is a 'big' club. Realistically on average over the last 20 years we are probably a 7th/8th/9th placed team. But supported relentlessly like a top 3 team. Unfortunately Hull KR have utilised Hull FC's 'ego' to their advantage, relished the underdog tag, harnessed the fighting spirit & created a real desire to work hard for each other on the pitch. Even when FC were expected to beat KR, you knew they wouldn't be going down without a hell of a fight. I just don't get the impression Tony Smith is suddenly going to turn Hull FC into a dogged determined to win outfit. Everything feels a bit wishy washy. Even when TS came in the first pre-season was lets take it easy to protect the players and allow us to peak at the right time. In stark contrast to other teams who were busting a gut to be ready for the season. I'm not sure the club has the appetite to make the decisions needed to really shake things up. Realistically this season is heading for a 9th placed finish at the very best. Only London will stop us finishing last. What is the answer? Who knows but this ''culture' thing just ain't working. We are only playing so many youngsters because of a lack of 1st team availability. Lets not be conned into thinking this is part of the preconceived plan. A fully fit spine and Jack Charles doesn't get a look in this season, TS is only using him out of desperation. Jack has certainly took his chance however. Recruitment & retention has been appalling for the last 4/5 years. But we are where we are or 'it is what it is' as Tony would say. I just keep thinking why does our culture change seem to be taking so long. In my opinion we need someone to come in and really instill the work ethic required to win games. With our current squad who would win more games this season Tony Smith or Shaun Wane / Brian McDermott. I'd suggest the latter two would have better results & certainly reduce the number of blow outs suffered. We need a shape up or ship out mentality rather than allowing players to hide behind a 'work in progress culture'

Culture has been a buzz word around the club since Tony Smith took over. Yet there is little to no evidence of a culture change on the pitch. You could've picked the best 17 amateur players in the city to pull on a jersey on Good Friday and they would have shown 100% more passion than that shower or a performance in the first 40. Back in August 2023 Tony Smith was implying we were making progress https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/tony-smith-opens-up-culture-8699668 Tony is now coming out with statements like 'we need to be angry' What next? 'We need to learn how to score more than the opposition' 'We need to stop letting tries in' 'We need to be fitter' Culture at Hull FC has been questioned for many many years, even back in 2002 Shaun McCrae famously stated there was a 'CANCER' within the club, alluding to poor culture. In the last 20+ years we have had some great squads, good squads and some average squads. We have had good coaches and not so good coaches. We have flirted with success via the challenge cup but never won a grand final. One thing that has been pretty consistent is a sense of underachievement in the majority of those seasons I would suggest. Clubs like Salford & Castleford, Hull KR & even Huddersfield have had seasons where they overachieve based on pre-season perceptions. I cannot recall Hull FC overachieving aside from maybe one season in the league. Maybe 'culture change' should be changed to 'lose the ego' ?? The club in the last 20 years has had many false dawns, expectations raised by big name signings or changes of coaches. The club needs to lose its ego and the internal perception that it is a 'big' club. Realistically on average over the last 20 years we are probably a 7th/8th/9th placed team. But supported relentlessly like a top 3 team. Unfortunately Hull KR have utilised Hull FC's 'ego' to their advantage, relished the underdog tag, harnessed the fighting spirit & created a real desire to work hard for each other on the pitch. Even when FC were expected to beat KR, you knew they wouldn't be going down without a hell of a fight. I just don't get the impression Tony Smith is suddenly going to turn Hull FC into a dogged determined to win outfit. Everything feels a bit wishy washy. Even when TS came in the first pre-season was lets take it easy to protect the players and allow us to peak at the right time. In stark contrast to other teams who were busting a gut to be ready for the season. I'm not sure the club has the appetite to make the decisions needed to really shake things up. Realistically this season is heading for a 9th placed finish at the very best. Only London will stop us finishing last. What is the answer? Who knows but this ''culture' thing just ain't working. We are only playing so many youngsters because of a lack of 1st team availability. Lets not be conned into thinking this is part of the preconceived plan. A fully fit spine and Jack Charles doesn't get a look in this season, TS is only using him out of desperation. Jack has certainly took his chance however. Recruitment & retention has been appalling for the last 4/5 years. But we are where we are or 'it is what it is' as Tony would say. I just keep thinking why does our culture change seem to be taking so long. In my opinion we need someone to come in and really instill the work ethic required to win games. With our current squad who would win more games this season Tony Smith or Shaun Wane / Brian McDermott. I'd suggest the latter two would have better results & certainly reduce the number of blow outs suffered. We need a shape up or ship out mentality rather than allowing players to hide behind a 'work in progress culture'

Re: CULTURE? : Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:52 pm  

Do we need another thread about Smith or the clubs current state?

Re: CULTURE? : Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:01 pm  

Dave K. wrote:

Do we need another thread about Smith or the clubs current state?

No, we don't.

Re: CULTURE? : Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:49 pm  

Bomber's tash wrote: Culture has been a buzz word around the club since Tony Smith took over. Yet there is little to no evidence of a culture change on the pitch. You could've picked the best 17 amateur players in the city to pull on a jersey on Good Friday and they would have shown 100% more passion than that shower or a performance in the first 40. Back in August 2023 Tony Smith was implying we were making progress https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/tony-smith-opens-up-culture-8699668 Tony is now coming out with statements like 'we need to be angry' What next? 'We need to learn how to score more than the opposition' 'We need to stop letting tries in' 'We need to be fitter' Culture at Hull FC has been questioned for many many years, even back in 2002 Shaun McCrae famously stated there was a 'CANCER' within the club, alluding to poor culture. In the last 20+ years we have had some great squads, good squads and some average squads. We have had good coaches and not so good coaches. We have flirted with success via the challenge cup but never won a grand final. One thing that has been pretty consistent is a sense of underachievement in the majority of those seasons I would suggest. Clubs like Salford & Castleford, Hull KR & even Huddersfield have had seasons where they overachieve based on pre-season perceptions. I cannot recall Hull FC overachieving aside from maybe one season in the league. Maybe 'culture change' should be changed to 'lose the ego' ?? The club in the last 20 years has had many false dawns, expectations raised by big name signings or changes of coaches. The club needs to lose its ego and the internal perception that it is a 'big' club. Realistically on average over the last 20 years we are probably a 7th/8th/9th placed team. But supported relentlessly like a top 3 team. Unfortunately Hull KR have utilised Hull FC's 'ego' to their advantage, relished the underdog tag, harnessed the fighting spirit & created a real desire to work hard for each other on the pitch. Even when FC were expected to beat KR, you knew they wouldn't be going down without a hell of a fight. I just don't get the impression Tony Smith is suddenly going to turn Hull FC into a dogged determined to win outfit. Everything feels a bit wishy washy. Even when TS came in the first pre-season was lets take it easy to protect the players and allow us to peak at the right time. In stark contrast to other teams who were busting a gut to be ready for the season. I'm not sure the club has the appetite to make the decisions needed to really shake things up. Realistically this season is heading for a 9th placed finish at the very best. Only London will stop us finishing last. What is the answer? Who knows but this ''culture' thing just ain't working. We are only playing so many youngsters because of a lack of 1st team availability. Lets not be conned into thinking this is part of the preconceived plan. A fully fit spine and Jack Charles doesn't get a look in this season, TS is only using him out of desperation. Jack has certainly took his chance however. Recruitment & retention has been appalling for the last 4/5 years. But we are where we are or 'it is what it is' as Tony would say. I just keep thinking why does our culture change seem to be taking so long. In my opinion we need someone to come in and really instill the work ethic required to win games. With our current squad who would win more games this season Tony Smith or Shaun Wane / Brian McDermott. I'd suggest the latter two would have better results & certainly reduce the number of blow outs suffered. We need a shape up or ship out mentality rather than allowing players to hide behind a 'work in progress culture' Whilst the post could of been attached to the Smith out thread, there’s is no doubting it’s credibility, well written, thought provoking, and in my humble opinion, pretty much unraveled the masquerading of culture change, whilst the biggest elephant in the room is swept under the boardroom carpet, quality investment in the first team, you get what you pay for. If AP has a plan to ride this season out while he replenishes his resources, then just come out and say it, I’ll take it on the chin and be back for more, a bit of openness and honesty works wonders.

Bomber's tash wrote: Culture has been a buzz word around the club since Tony Smith took over. Yet there is little to no evidence of a culture change on the pitch. You could've picked the best 17 amateur players in the city to pull on a jersey on Good Friday and they would have shown 100% more passion than that shower or a performance in the first 40. Back in August 2023 Tony Smith was implying we were making progress https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/tony-smith-opens-up-culture-8699668 Tony is now coming out with statements like 'we need to be angry' What next? 'We need to learn how to score more than the opposition' 'We need to stop letting tries in' 'We need to be fitter' Culture at Hull FC has been questioned for many many years, even back in 2002 Shaun McCrae famously stated there was a 'CANCER' within the club, alluding to poor culture. In the last 20+ years we have had some great squads, good squads and some average squads. We have had good coaches and not so good coaches. We have flirted with success via the challenge cup but never won a grand final. One thing that has been pretty consistent is a sense of underachievement in the majority of those seasons I would suggest. Clubs like Salford & Castleford, Hull KR & even Huddersfield have had seasons where they overachieve based on pre-season perceptions. I cannot recall Hull FC overachieving aside from maybe one season in the league. Maybe 'culture change' should be changed to 'lose the ego' ?? The club in the last 20 years has had many false dawns, expectations raised by big name signings or changes of coaches. The club needs to lose its ego and the internal perception that it is a 'big' club. Realistically on average over the last 20 years we are probably a 7th/8th/9th placed team. But supported relentlessly like a top 3 team. Unfortunately Hull KR have utilised Hull FC's 'ego' to their advantage, relished the underdog tag, harnessed the fighting spirit & created a real desire to work hard for each other on the pitch. Even when FC were expected to beat KR, you knew they wouldn't be going down without a hell of a fight. I just don't get the impression Tony Smith is suddenly going to turn Hull FC into a dogged determined to win outfit. Everything feels a bit wishy washy. Even when TS came in the first pre-season was lets take it easy to protect the players and allow us to peak at the right time. In stark contrast to other teams who were busting a gut to be ready for the season. I'm not sure the club has the appetite to make the decisions needed to really shake things up. Realistically this season is heading for a 9th placed finish at the very best. Only London will stop us finishing last. What is the answer? Who knows but this ''culture' thing just ain't working. We are only playing so many youngsters because of a lack of 1st team availability. Lets not be conned into thinking this is part of the preconceived plan. A fully fit spine and Jack Charles doesn't get a look in this season, TS is only using him out of desperation. Jack has certainly took his chance however. Recruitment & retention has been appalling for the last 4/5 years. But we are where we are or 'it is what it is' as Tony would say. I just keep thinking why does our culture change seem to be taking so long. In my opinion we need someone to come in and really instill the work ethic required to win games. With our current squad who would win more games this season Tony Smith or Shaun Wane / Brian McDermott. I'd suggest the latter two would have better results & certainly reduce the number of blow outs suffered. We need a shape up or ship out mentality rather than allowing players to hide behind a 'work in progress culture' Whilst the post could of been attached to the Smith out thread, there’s is no doubting it’s credibility, well written, thought provoking, and in my humble opinion, pretty much unraveled the masquerading of culture change, whilst the biggest elephant in the room is swept under the boardroom carpet, quality investment in the first team, you get what you pay for. If AP has a plan to ride this season out while he replenishes his resources, then just come out and say it, I’ll take it on the chin and be back for more, a bit of openness and honesty works wonders.

Re: CULTURE? : Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:53 pm  

There are only 2 Cultures I know of in Sport
1. WINNING
2. Losing

Currently we have been mired in a Losing culture for Years
Smith is talking absolute bulls bullocks
re Culture
It all comes back to WINNING
It always has and always will
Full stop period

Re: CULTURE? : Wed Apr 03, 2024 5:58 am  

Tarquin Fuego wrote:

There are only 2 Cultures I know of in Sport
1. WINNING
2. Losing

Currently we have been mired in a Losing culture for Years
Smith is talking absolute bulls bullocks
re Culture
It all comes back to WINNING
It always has and always will
Full stop period

Oversimplistic!

Re: CULTURE? : Wed Apr 03, 2024 6:01 am  

EtonStreetRifle wrote:

Oversimplistic!

For the purposes of Sports it’s not over simplistic

It’s usually young working class lads who play the game
They like rules and straight forward guidelines

Kinda like the Army - they don’t mess with culture
They have one and stick to it - wins wars and keeps
Soldiers alive

Keep it simple !
WINNING underpins all we do whilst winning and creating great young men

Re: CULTURE? : Wed Apr 03, 2024 6:11 am  

The worst thing that ever happened to your club was Macrae stating the Cancer in the club thing, when was that 18 years ago? yes there might have been problems then but its got nothing to do with todays problems, its just a ready made excuse for the fans to cling to and trot out in some kind of victim mentality as a reason its all going wrong

You've got money issues, that means lower quality players, that means bad results which means you need a coach who can work on a shoestring and get good performances, Smith has never done that, he's always improved clubs on the back of increased investment (or continued high investment) but to be fair to Pearson he was the coach 95% of you wanted, so where did he go wrong there? Smith left us because he wanted total control of recruitment, playing staff and a lot more, we wouldn't give him it, Pearson did and his recruitment (or more so his ability to retain) has shown to be way off, thats the issue, not imaginary culture / cancer rubbish, a good hard coach would motivate, organise and stiffen up at least the defence he isn't

Bottom line if you were winning games (or competing) you'd have no culture issues, Wilkin said on sky when they were saying Wire players looked happier, "who cares as long as theyre winning, they're not paid to be happy". he said he'd been in champion teams were players didn't get on.

Re: CULTURE? : Wed Apr 03, 2024 6:45 am  

Well the position of posts on threads apart I thought that the initial poster was interesting to read and indeed its good to meet someone else that doesn't fail to use 100 words when ten will do, he's hardly a regular poster these days and he's obviously feeling it. But its something that bothers us all a lot. Yes our Rovers friend above can harp on about winning is everything because after years of not doing too much of it Rovers at present are winning and doing it well. What he chooses to forget now they are world beaters is that what we all have to admire about them is that whoever has been in charge there, whoever played for them, however unskilled they were, I always got the impression that the players were doing it for the club and the fans, and they left nothing out on the field, even when they weren't winning. You always detected that was the case in Derby games anyway.

I don't like the expression culture used in this way but it's hard to know what other term to use. In all walks of life the demeanour and attitude of the work force does dictate how well the organisation performs. Winning is great but knowing that the team you put out wants to win as much as you do sat on the terraces and that they are battling for one thing Hull FC and everything it means to us all, is paramount. The strange thing for me is that with the exception of a short time under John Kear and another under the captaincy of Gareth Ellis, if I'm honest I have never really felt that. Despite the fact that we have seen some of the best players in the game come through the club, it's always been a case of us lot turning up wanting to win but wondering which Hull Fc will turn up on the field. Exciting signings and promises of jam tomorrow have got us through but now we have no big money for exciting 'new hope' signings, for me, our 'culture' chicken has come home to roost.

Re: CULTURE? : Wed Apr 03, 2024 8:10 am  

If AP has a plan to ride this season out while he replenishes his resources, then just come out and say it, I’ll take it on the chin and be back for more, a bit of openness and honesty works wonders.

My view is this is exactly what's happening, AP is trying to clear the covid loans, negotiate a new lease then I think he will sell the club to the highest or lowest bidder. No way are we at cap. Don't really blame him TBH