Re: Enough is Enough : Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:52 am  

Kosh wrote:

The only slight caveat I'd make is that Ellis explicitly stated that they failed to follow Radford's plan for last night. Now whether he meant tactics or something else I don't know but the players are clearly not doing what Radford wants them to do for some reason. That's not absolving Radford of responsibility, just shifting the focus of his failure slightly.

Fair enough, I've not read/watched much fallout from last night's game yet, other than Radford's interview on Sky.

Re: Enough is Enough : Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:07 am  

Dave K. wrote:

Who do you drop for the Wakey game, based on last night could be a few?

Sneyd, but we have no one else
Logan but we have no one else

I'd certainly look to bring in Reece Dean who has a bit of zip about him, in place of Abdul who looked lost last night.

Simple play Tuimavave at 6 because that's were he will play next year fact. Bring in Yeamo at centre.

Re: Enough is Enough : Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:12 am  

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but the sky commentary on sky last night was complete rubbish. Obviously it wasn't made easier to put up with being in a foul mood with our performance but next time I think I will put it on mute. In Australia the commentary actually refers to the game rather than gossip and bollux chit chat. A bit OT but just thought I'd add some more negativity to the debate

Re: Enough is Enough : Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:13 am  

On the club website just a report of the game, no grovelling or anything yet. Does that say anything to you?

Also Denis Betts saying he'd never let the players lock him out of the dressing room

I were about to see the end of Radford.

Re: Enough is Enough : Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:24 am  

There are numerous issues for me as to why we are failing:

1 - Jamie Shaul. I like him as a full back, great under the high ball (excluding last night) and dangerous in broken play. However, he is never a pivot and very rarely picks the money ball. Look at Hanbury last night for an example of how a full back should be used (if using them as a pivot) - with this in mind, the overlap needs to be created further infield to give Shaul a 3 v 2 as he wont create it himself

2 - Halves. They don't attack the line. In the Derby friendly, Sneyd and Pryce especially were taking it to the line with option runners either side, Sneyd passes far too far from the defence giving them time to set. Sneyd also doesn't pick the correct pass time and time again (should have given it to Frank in the Cas game, 5 yards out instead of out the back to Shaul)

3 - Backs as Forwards, Forwards as Backs - We use our backs far too much for getting us away from our line and they are used for strength as opposed to speed, elusiveness, and finishing attributes. Last night Sneyd ran right with the ball in the 2nd half, and there wasn't a centre or a winger there as they had been used for the first 2 tackles of the set and were still catching up with play. Last night we were also using the forwards far too much in their 20. It worked with Frank, but teams do cotton on to things and defended that threat time after time. People like Ellis and Taylor were taking the half back role and then giving it to another forward on their line!! Where are the set moves, the half back creating things - just watch Kevin Brown at the touchscreen with Jon Wells to see what a half should be doing, looking at numbers, retreating defenders etc to see what we need.

4 - Discipline. Shocking, simply put. Watts will give 3 penalties away a game, even Ellis did last night (but forgiven due to his work rate and tackle intensity which never drops)

5 - Bench Rotation - again is very poor. Last night, the Kevin Brown dummy and go try targeted a tired defender in Manu - who didn't slide across. When the kicker was lining the conversion up, you could hear over the microphone "Sika Manu set" - which I assume was said in the Widnes drinks huddle. From the kick off, they ran at Manu, or the space either side of him for 3 or 4 tackles, with good go forward and made easy yards. Why we cannot identify when a players intensity has dropped and fatigue has set in I don't know. I appreciate he is a big player for us, but he will be better utilised if he isn't fatigued as hell


They are just a few of our flaws, there are many. But all will be fine again with a win against Wakefield

Re: Enough is Enough : Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:26 am  

rodney_trotter wrote:

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but the sky commentary on sky last night was complete rubbish. Obviously it wasn't made easier to put up with being in a foul mood with our performance but next time I think I will put it on mute. In Australia the commentary actually refers to the game rather than gossip and bollux chit chat. A bit OT but just thought I'd add some more negativity to the debate

You're not wrong Dave. The Sky 'commentary' is basically a few mates watching a game of rugby having a chat and arguments between themselves like a load of fans in a pub.

Re: Enough is Enough : Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:33 am  

rodney_trotter wrote:

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but the sky commentary on sky last night was complete rubbish. Obviously it wasn't made easier to put up with being in a foul mood with our performance but next time I think I will put it on mute. In Australia the commentary actually refers to the game rather than gossip and bollux chit chat. A bit OT but just thought I'd add some more negativity to the debate

Listening to Doyle Davidson isn't any better. Last weeks Wigan 'commentary' included such pearlers as;
Man Friday has the ball (not once but every time) that's Manfredi to you and I
Can't be bothered to even finish saying Tuimuvave's name...just ends halfway through a mumble.
The Doyle Davidson bingo was a full house, the most annoying being "you're missing nothing here" wtf, clearly there waa something going on but you can't describe it
He is too old and cannot fathom half the players he mistook One of the forwards (Bowden i think) for Shaul, previously Micheals as Shaul. nor keep up with play and actually commentate..it's awful.
Still, chin up it could be worse..lol

Re: Enough is Enough : Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:42 am  

After the first two games I have seen no evidence of any positive influence from the coach at all. I am sure he played in a big part in pre season preparation but since then I do not think he has a clue regarding adapting tactics to suit the opposition.
Having said that I bet that Dennis Betts win/loss record is not that good overall since becoming a first team coach but at least he has spent some time learning his trade as an assistant coach etc and, crucially, he has some talent alongside side him in Cassidy and, particularly Brett Hodgson, a former Man of Steel. Look he we have got.
That is not to let Radford off the hook at all. Personally I am fed up of paying for his coaching apprenticeship. He should do the honest thing and go.

Re: Enough is Enough : Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:50 am  

Doom&Gloom Merchant wrote:

You're not wrong Dave. The Sky 'commentary' is basically a few mates watching a game of rugby having a chat and arguments between themselves like a load of fans in a pub.

Thing that gets me the most is that they never seem to know who any of the players are, so much last night was like, "is that talanoa?", "and, is that Pritchard, with the ball?" Basically found myself doing the correct commentary in my head.

Re: Enough is Enough : Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:05 pm  

Wilde 3 wrote:

There are numerous issues for me as to why we are failing:

1 - Jamie Shaul. I like him as a full back, great under the high ball (excluding last night) and dangerous in broken play. However, he is never a pivot and very rarely picks the money ball. Look at Hanbury last night for an example of how a full back should be used (if using them as a pivot) - with this in mind, the overlap needs to be created further infield to give Shaul a 3 v 2 as he wont create it himself

2 - Halves. They don't attack the line. In the Derby friendly, Sneyd and Pryce especially were taking it to the line with option runners either side, Sneyd passes far too far from the defence giving them time to set. Sneyd also doesn't pick the correct pass time and time again (should have given it to Frank in the Cas game, 5 yards out instead of out the back to Shaul)

3 - Backs as Forwards, Forwards as Backs - We use our backs far too much for getting us away from our line and they are used for strength as opposed to speed, elusiveness, and finishing attributes. Last night Sneyd ran right with the ball in the 2nd half, and there wasn't a centre or a winger there as they had been used for the first 2 tackles of the set and were still catching up with play. Last night we were also using the forwards far too much in their 20. It worked with Frank, but teams do cotton on to things and defended that threat time after time. People like Ellis and Taylor were taking the half back role and then giving it to another forward on their line!! Where are the set moves, the half back creating things - just watch Kevin Brown at the touchscreen with Jon Wells to see what a half should be doing, looking at numbers, retreating defenders etc to see what we need.

4 - Discipline. Shocking, simply put. Watts will give 3 penalties away a game, even Ellis did last night (but forgiven due to his work rate and tackle intensity which never drops)

5 - Bench Rotation - again is very poor. Last night, the Kevin Brown dummy and go try targeted a tired defender in Manu - who didn't slide across. When the kicker was lining the conversion up, you could hear over the microphone "Sika Manu set" - which I assume was said in the Widnes drinks huddle. From the kick off, they ran at Manu, or the space either side of him for 3 or 4 tackles, with good go forward and made easy yards. Why we cannot identify when a players intensity has dropped and fatigue has set in I don't know. I appreciate he is a big player for us, but he will be better utilised if he isn't fatigued as hell


They are just a few of our flaws, there are many. But all will be fine again with a win against Wakefield

Although not perfect, I feel that this has improved this year, last night he gave a good ball to Talanoa, who then dropped the ball, a quicker winger, would ahve had less pressure on him and scored that try.

Agree on all other points, I still think there is a good halfback in Sneyd, but he needs more confidence and have a partner playing with him (Not at the other side of the park) Mellor and Brown play together and it makes a difference.