Re: Saints in the cup : Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:29 am  

Yesterday was just so frustrating. I never thought we’d win the cup but for me the first half yesterday was set up for the second half to be a humdinger.

You look at the NRL and refs like Nigel Owens. There’s a rapport between players the the ref. All Kendall had to say to griffin was

“I’m refereeing this game, not you. I gave the call I thought was right. Apologise for your language or I’ll send you for 10”

Griffin then has to take his medicine, knows his place and the spectacle isn’t ruined. post game he can get a £250 fine and hopefully learn his lesson

I was out down south last night and was talking to a big bloke in a RU top. Said he watched the game and was enjoying it till the red card. I’m sure there were 1000s like that.

Re: Saints in the cup : Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:34 am  

I was at the game yesterday and after most games end up arguing with my dad whos a right referee basher and im generally in the you cant always blame the ref camp but yesterday the ref was atrocious to the point of being bent. Kendall had an agenda and that was to ping FC for everything. Saints getting constant pens 25 from Hulls line, if we got any they was in our own 25. There was nothing in the Fash incident, Saints players arguing with the ref no issues but Griffin sent off, Saints shoulder charges especially the one on Fash going unpunished - the whole thing was a shambles and an official complaint should be put in from FC about Kendalls performance imo

Re: Saints in the cup : Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:52 am  

Are the ref’s still miked up? Would be interesting if they are to see if what Griffin said is picked up to justify the yellow and red cards

Re: Saints in the cup : Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:55 am  

mwindass wrote:

Haven't had the pleasure of watching the full game yet, only saw about 10 mins, Trueman and Welsbys scores.

Sounds like we were on the wrong end of some iffy calls. On the Griffin red its just dumb from him. Saying that Kendall comes across as though he has a massive superiority complex and isn't a great communicator.

Saw enough of the game to not pick Dwyer for next week. Said he was a headless chicken when we were linked with him last season.

Would I have taken that performance before the game? Probably, but do wonder what might have been if no card was shown

Looks like we'll be missing Griffin, Taylor and possibly Hoy and Fash for next week.

That's the 3rd time for a griffin, Wigan away in the play offs, Cas in the cup and now this, he isn't learning and deserves a ban. What does he expect to happen by abusing the ref, he isn't going to change his mind and this cost us any chance of winning this game. He will more likely get a ban and if he does he will hopefully learn.

Re: Saints in the cup : Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:59 am  

So looks like Hoy, Fash, Tag and Griffin out on Thursday, Clifford, Brown, Gardiner? and Lane with possibly Scott or Lovudua on the bench.

Re: Saints in the cup : Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:06 am  

Dave K. wrote:

That's the 3rd time for a griffin, Wigan away in the play offs, Cas in the cup and now this, he isn't learning and deserves a ban. What does he expect to happen by abusing the ref, he isn't going to change his mind and this cost us any chance of winning this game. He will more likely get a ban and if he does he will hopefully learn.

Think this is the perfect time for a "sending off sufficient". He cost his team any chance of winning yesterday, that should be enough for me. If Charnley got away with just a £250 fine last week for taking Clifford out of the game with a head injury, it would seem ridiculous if Griffin gets banned for telling the ref he's doing a poop job.
If it came out he said something Mcguire-esque and used slurs then fair enough. But if it was just "you're a loving joke" then giving bans for that but not late high shots seeks wrong to me.
He cost us a good chance of winning with his stupidity, that should be punishment enough for me.

Having said that, I do fully expect him to get a ban because, well, RFL. I just don't think he should.
If anybody from the game gets a ban it should be Fash, as although I think it was accidental, he still have a duty to protect players heads and he hasn't done that, and Makinson will now miss a game and a half.

Re: Saints in the cup : Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:19 am  

Sebasteeno wrote:

I was at the game yesterday and after most games end up arguing with my dad whos a right referee basher and im generally in the you cant always blame the ref camp but yesterday the ref was atrocious to the point of being bent. Kendall had an agenda and that was to ping FC for everything. Saints getting constant pens 25 from Hulls line, if we got any they was in our own 25. There was nothing in the Fash incident, Saints players arguing with the ref no issues but Griffin sent off, Saints shoulder charges especially the one on Fash going unpunished - the whole thing was a shambles and an official complaint should be put in from FC about Kendalls performance imo

I’ve held my tongue in this thread as fans are entitled to their opinion; but what you have written is beyond the pale.

Let’s start with the Fash incident. It’s a red card every day of the week. Direct contact with the head with the shoulder whilst prone in a tackle. I don’t think it was a particularly dirty play, but Fash went for an aggressive, dominant tackle and got it completely wrong, leaving a player stone cold K.O.’d. I truly don’t understand how Kendall got to on report; because either he’s penalising contact with the head and it’s a red card, or it’s a knock on, there’s really no inbetween. Those calling “oh the ref shouldn’t have sent Griffin off for the sake of the game”; that good grace was used for that tackle.

After we took the 2; you knocked the ball out on the third tackle which Kendall ignored and you took the ascendancy.

Then you have your second try which Kendall sent up as a try; when McIntosh knocked the ball forwards into Mata’utias forearm and it then went backwards to Savelio, which was ignored/ not overruled due to the silly guess work rules refs need.

And then you get to the insanity that was the Griffin incident. Kendall told him to walk away, he kept gobbing off so he sin binned him. He still kept gobbing off, and gave Kendall no choice. There is a massive difference between challenging decisions and calling the ref a joke (an abbreviated version of what turned a yellow to a red I believe). If a saints player had done it I would have had no issue with the ref standing a player down like that; it’s a slippery slope in letting comments like that go and it turning into football.

And as a final point on “Saints got penalties close to our line; we only got penalties coming out of our own half”; I could debate the pros and cons of each to be honest, but I think the BBC put stats up half way through the second half that showed Saints had had 4 times more play the balls in Hulls half than vv. You tend to win penalties where you have the ball and Hull had the ball in their own half a lot and Saints had the ball in Hulls half a lot.

I get all fans see biases and inconsistency with refs; the Saints fans have a particular conspiracy with the disciplinary but generally I think that gives far too much credence to the RFL. I totally accept my counter points are a very Saints centric view of things as well, and that the reality is somewhere between the two of us. There were mistakes in Kendall’s game (yep, Batchelor did shoulder charge Fash, should have been a penalty) but they cut both ways, and in the big moments did well enough. Kendall didn’t lose you the game; Griffin did.

[Chris71]

Re: Saints in the cup : Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:26 am  

On the subject of the card incident I still can’t quite believe the speed at which the cards were issued particularly yellow to red with Kendal, not speaking to Griffin or trying to defuse a genuinely frustrated player. I hope this incident is investigated by the club to find out exactly what was said in terms of words and context.
If Griffin has used extreme language in the short space of time to warrant the card then I hope the club deal with this suitably and internally. If it’s found that Griffin hasn’t used language to warrant a either card and Kendal has over reacted to being questioned about his decisions or the manner of that, then I would hope the club and RFL take action and Kendal is dealt with again suitably. If it is the latter then I fear nothing will be done as there is no transparency or accountability.
I agree that the officials should be shown respect by players but that is also a two way street.
For me Kendal seems to be someone that isn’t able to communicate with people well or manage situations. He seems to have somewhat of a superiority complex when he has a whistle in hand. He is not the only one in the current list of officials in the U.K. game. There a certainly a disconnect from the officials to the players with no rapport or communication skills. They appear to speak down to the players rather than a mutual respect and act like Victorian school masters.
I’m not going to scapegoat Griffin as he will know that the cars changed the game in St’s favour though I have little doubt St’s would still have won.
For all the ones saying it was stupid arguing a decision that had no affect, I’d say it seems it was more a frustration of the difference in the decisions through the first 40.

Re: Saints in the cup : Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:37 am  

People keep saying Griffin should have walked away but to be fair he was walking away. He said about 6 words to Kendall in passing and then walked off. Kendall had to call him back for his yellow card. Griffin then walked away again, said 2 or 3 words and Kendall again had to call him back for a red.
He 100% should have kept his mouth shut but he was trying to leave the pitch at the time. It's not like he was hanging round and shouting in Kendall's face.
After the initial yellow card it could have been some as simple as "love sake" that Griffin said to himself. That surely in no way would warrant a red? Could have just been something that Kendall misheard was directed at him rather than Griffin just moaning to himself.
I can handle the yellow but as others have said its the sheer speed at which it turned to a red which is baffling and we would all like some more clarity on. Likelihood is we will never actually get it.

Re: Saints in the cup : Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:38 am  

Somebodies just told me that FC have won only 16% of games that Kendall has refereed out of 30 matches in total - only 5 games won - something fishy there