Re: O/T - Allam the terrible ! : Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:11 pm  

Exactly, Mrs B.

The fact is that there simply is no need for development of West Park or the Fairground - if fact, to do so would be heinous crimes.

There could be an argument for development of the land east of the stadium - the apparent waste land to either side of the walkway between Argyle street and the KC, between the railway lines. Not actually sure who owns this - is it the Council?

However, even here, there is no requisite for a retail park of any description. A leisure park would be nice but only if self sufficient and, frankly, in light of the use of existing Council facilities, it probably isn't going to be. So Heigh Ho. No crucial pressing need for development at all - despite the Red Herring Blind Uncle Harry keeps chucking up in the air.

A retail park would be inappropriate given the devastating effect even current overkill has had on the city centre and existing retail complexes, and would give nothing to the community at all.

So, in direct contrast to BUH 's assertions, it is the council who can afford to sit back and do nothing - and rightly so, there being no need for imminent action. It's the Allams - for whom it is essential they get their hands on the KC - who must therefore approach the Council with humility and an astounding idea that doesn't involve shops.

They can't - not possible in the current climate. That's why the Council feel safe in calling their bluff.

Re: O/T - Allam the terrible ! : Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:30 pm  

My Uncle Harry wrote:

I'll accept defeat when it arrives. Just as long as you realise having a different perspective than a few posters on here doesn't make me wrong.

A different perspective does not make you wrong.
The blind Allam is right tack you appear to be taking is though making you look a little foolish.
Allam needs to make a concrete proposal which is going to cost him a significant amount of money to do. If he does that, and the council and the public agree that it is a good idea, then he will be repayed 20/30 fold. So, if he is serious, he needs to put up or shut up. To me, it seems that simple.

Re: O/T - Allam the terrible ! : Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:58 pm  

hull smallears wrote:

A different perspective does not make you wrong.
The blind Allam is right tack you appear to be taking is though making you look a little foolish.
Allam needs to make a concrete proposal which is going to cost him a significant amount of money to do. If he does that, and the council and the public agree that it is a good idea, then he will be repayed 20/30 fold. So, if he is serious, he needs to put up or shut up. To me, it seems that simple.

No, foolish would be someone STILL trying to claim I'm saying the Allam's are right, despite me pointing out many times that's not my position.

Little wonder the rest of the discussion's lost on you.

Re: O/T - Allam the terrible ! : Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:00 pm  

WormInHand wrote:

Exactly, Mrs B.

The fact is that there simply is no need for development of West Park or the Fairground - if fact, to do so would be heinous crimes.

There could be an argument for development of the land east of the stadium - the apparent waste land to either side of the walkway between Argyle street and the KC, between the railway lines. Not actually sure who owns this - is it the Council?

However, even here, there is no requisite for a retail park of any description. A leisure park would be nice but only if self sufficient and, frankly, in light of the use of existing Council facilities, it probably isn't going to be. So Heigh Ho. No crucial pressing need for development at all - despite the Red Herring Blind Uncle Harry keeps chucking up in the air.

A retail park would be inappropriate given the devastating effect even current overkill has had on the city centre and existing retail complexes, and would give nothing to the community at all.

So, in direct contrast to BUH 's assertions, it is the council who can afford to sit back and do nothing - and rightly so, there being no need for imminent action. It's the Allams - for whom it is essential they get their hands on the KC - who must therefore approach the Council with humility and an astounding idea that doesn't involve shops.

They can't - not possible in the current climate. That's why the Council feel safe in calling their bluff.

You think the area around the stadium doesn't need developing? There's no accounting for taste.

Re: O/T - Allam the terrible ! : Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:47 pm  

Funny Uncle Harry. Are you trying to be fatuous? Being deliberately obtuse? Or merely only reading half the posts again?

West Park - a Victorian haven for the last century, the only emerald of that area of Anlaby Road - cannot be 'developed'. To raze it would be a crime. The fairground hosts a unique and enormous attraction and has a tradition spanning a thousand years. For the rest of the year it is utilised semi-weekly as Hull's market - generating business - attracting and catering for the needs of thousands. Development there? Yep a new surface and a few trees would be nice. All major European towns have a large municipal central area dedicated to the town's market.

I've said the area to the east of the stadium could have a valid argument for development, but not sure who owns it. Did you ignore that bit of my post?

Which of the above do you disagree with?

Re: O/T - Allam the terrible ! : Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:56 pm  

My Uncle Harry wrote:

You think the area around the stadium doesn't need developing? There's no accounting for taste.

Nobody has stated the area around the Stadium doesn't need developing But West Park is an area were people like to take they childern to play and have a good time ..People who live around there were up in arms when the lights were put up and the roads put in they complained that the Park area was getting smaller ..The main Road leanding to the Stadium want developing not a lot has been done to it over the years only the flyover that been built and HRI been improved But from there onwards nothing has changed much that were money should be spent

Re: O/T - Allam the terrible ! : Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:09 am  

WormInHand wrote:

Funny Uncle Harry. Are you trying to be fatuous? Being deliberately obtuse? Or merely only reading half the posts again?

West Park - a Victorian haven for the last century, the only emerald of that area of Anlaby Road - cannot be 'developed'. To raze it would be a crime. The fairground hosts a unique and enormous attraction and has a tradition spanning a thousand years. For the rest of the year it is utilised semi-weekly as Hull's market - generating business - attracting and catering for needs of thousands. Development there? Yep a new surface and a few trees would be nice. All major European towns have a large municipal central area dedicated to the town's market.

I've said the area to the east of the stadium could have a valid argument for development, but not sure who owns it. Did you ignore that bit of my post?
Which of the above do you disagree with?

What do I disagree with?

Your claim of me not reading posts for a kick off. The pointless ramble about razing west park, when I'd not mentioned it. The 1000's of years of history of the fair at Walton Street. Walton Street being central, and a place already exists for the "market" you laughably describe the trading standards exercise yard as. Your claim some grass and trees would sort out the area around west park.

I didn't ignore the bit of your post that talked of the area around the stadium. It agreed with what I'd put!

Re: O/T - Allam the terrible ! : Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:16 am  

My Uncle Harry wrote:

What do I disagree with?

Your claim of me not reading posts for a kick off. The pointless ramble about razing west park, when I'd not mentioned it. The 1000's of years of history of the fair at Walton Street. Walton Street being central, and a place already exists for the "market" you laughably describe the trading standards exercise yard as. Your claim some grass and trees would sort out the area around west park.

I didn't ignore the bit of your post that talked of the area around the stadium. It agreed with what I'd put!

All you seem to do is to counter anything anyone has posted which doesn't toe the allam party line. What do you think should be happening here?

My understanding of the reported "facts" (And as far as I know there is no documentary evidence to prove these are wrong) are:

allam met the council and proposed they gifted him the KC and surrounding area so that he could develop a sports and retail village

The council declined but instead offered him a (less prime?) site further out from the city centre, which he declined to accept

allam then effectively took his bat home and said he would no longer deal with the council

The council have said that the door is still open for further negotiation if he wants to come back

Now I may be wrong with some of that and if I am please let me know.

So we're left with a business man who wants a prime piece of land for nothing, to include a public park and the council's £40m sports stadium so he can build a mix of leisure and retail development at a cost of circa £100m

My first concern would be the availability of funding for such a development and the second would be the ability to generate enough revenue to service such a sizeable debt. The city already has significant retail space standing empty. If all that would happen would be duplication of what is already in hull then the build would be pointless and wouldn't generate further wealth in the area.

If allam can get some guarantee of a flagship store as an anchor tenant then it would certainly be worth consideration. If he can't, then why should the council be the ones to make all the running.

IMO, the council's inward investment team know that all allam wants is something to show for the £40m+ he's forked out on city and that he believes the local authority are the ones who should give him it. They also know that he hasn't got anything which even approximates a definitive plan for the site and that the chances of a successful development are somewhere close to nil.

If there is an opportunity to develop the site then surely this should go out to some kind of bidding process anyway and allam would be entitled to be involved in this along with anyone else

Re: O/T - Allam the terrible ! : Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:32 am  

And the story rumbles on.............

And the story rumbles on.............

Re: O/T - Allam the terrible ! : Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:46 am  

Sebasteeno wrote: And the story rumbles on............. Why hold a referendum, the elected councillors have made a decision from a position of far greater knowledge than the man on the street. Referendums are a pure cop out by the politicians. If the public of Hull vote to back Allam will that make his lack of plans any more substantial?? This is a similar issue to the vote on the EU, asking the general public (a high % of which aren't the brightest) to cast a vote on something they either don't understand, or that their understanding comes from a great source like the Sun, is ludicrous. All referendums are decided by which way the media decides it wants them to go rather than the decision which is for the good of the public.

Sebasteeno wrote: And the story rumbles on............. Why hold a referendum, the elected councillors have made a decision from a position of far greater knowledge than the man on the street. Referendums are a pure cop out by the politicians. If the public of Hull vote to back Allam will that make his lack of plans any more substantial?? This is a similar issue to the vote on the EU, asking the general public (a high % of which aren't the brightest) to cast a vote on something they either don't understand, or that their understanding comes from a great source like the Sun, is ludicrous. All referendums are decided by which way the media decides it wants them to go rather than the decision which is for the good of the public.