[Mild Rover]

Re: COHA : Fri May 24, 2019 10:32 am  

Mrs Barista wrote:

I am nearly on holiday. Do you say day-ta, or dah-ta? I'm pretty sure the Romans used the latter if we're doing tradition

Same way I say tomato - correctly.

Dave K. wrote:

Worrying times ahead, Andy the Rovers fan says that Pearson will be looking to leave us, now he has to pay for the academy.

Along with the best players coaches facilities and the super rich chairman , it won't be long until Rovers are churning out international players again.

That sarcasm is a bit rich after some of the hyperbole that surrounded your most recent supposed golden generation. Some have emerged serviceable pros, and certainly they’re the best batch from either club for a while. But they were talked about as the basis of our international team for years to come in some quarters. okay, the lad Tomlinson was the worst offender but he’s been a contributor to the HDM... the sports section of which is a Hull FC fanzine, admittedly. However, he was hardly a lone voice in the wilderness.

Let’s be honest, either club would love a group like Wheeldon, Hall, Washbrook, G.Horne and Tommy Lee now - and they were thought by many to have not lived up to expectations.

[Mild Rover]

Re: COHA : Fri May 24, 2019 10:40 am  

Raggytash wrote:

Bobby did play first team. So did a few others. I'm fairly sure I've also missed some so don't worry about it mate!

2012 Tom Lineham (68), Chris Green (128), Liam Kent (12)
2015 Bobby Tyson Wilson (2) Challenge cup v Sheffield Eagles, Super League v Salford.
2016 Jack Downs (20) (NOT 2015)

Cheers. Wikipedia (not the most reliable source, I know), had Lineham, Green and Kent down as 2011 debuts. Or maybe it refers to the first year they got a squad number or something. I saw Kent play a couple of times (Wiki only credits him with seven games, iirc), and thought he looked promising. Lineham had played 20 times for York before joining, according to Wiki, and i’ve seen Rovers’ homegrown players’ credentials questioned for a lot less than that.
Bobby Tyson-Wilson doesn’t even have a Wiki page, as far as I can see.

Re: COHA : Fri May 24, 2019 10:51 am  

Lots of player stats on this site.... eg Tom Lineham http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/playe ... mmary.html

Lots of player stats on this site.... eg Tom Lineham http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/playe ... mmary.html

[Mild Rover]

Re: COHA : Fri May 24, 2019 11:23 am  

Amended list for Hull. 2012: Bowden (132), Green (128), Lineham (68)*, Crooks (51), Kent (12), Cunningham (10), Jack Briscoe (1) 2013: Shaul (150), Hadley (83) 2014: Abdull (54), Harry Tyson-Wilson (1) 2015: Fash (55), Matongo (49), Logan (38), Turgut (30), Lancaster (7), Bobby Tyson-Wilson (2) 2016: Downs (20). * http://www.hullfc.com/news/2012-02-29-l ... and-whites

Amended list for Hull. 2012: Bowden (132), Green (128), Lineham (68)*, Crooks (51), Kent (12), Cunningham (10), Jack Briscoe (1) 2013: Shaul (150), Hadley (83) 2014: Abdull (54), Harry Tyson-Wilson (1) 2015: Fash (55), Matongo (49), Logan (38), Turgut (30), Lancaster (7), Bobby Tyson-Wilson (2) 2016: Downs (20). * http://www.hullfc.com/news/2012-02-29-l ... and-whites

Re: COHA : Fri May 24, 2019 12:20 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

Cheers. Wikipedia (not the most reliable source, I know), had Lineham, Green and Kent down as 2011 debuts. Or maybe it refers to the first year they got a squad number or something. I saw Kent play a couple of times (Wiki only credits him with seven games, iirc), and thought he looked promising. Lineham had played 20 times for York before joining, according to Wiki, and i’ve seen Rovers’ homegrown players’ credentials questioned for a lot less than that.
Bobby Tyson-Wilson doesn’t even have a Wiki page, as far as I can see.

Lineham played for York but did at least one full season in our academy. We used to go and watch him quite a lot. There's no credentials to question there. If I pointed out that Westerman or Louie McCarthy-Scarsbrook counted because they played for our academy - that would be questionable. Although I'm quite sure they're only decent players because of that fact! Didn't Watts play for either our or your academy too?

And as an aside, I thought Turgut was starting to look a real player just before Salford got rid. Which makes what's happened an even bigger tragedy.

[Mild Rover]

Re: COHA : Fri May 24, 2019 1:01 pm  

Raggytash wrote:

Lineham played for York but did at least one full season in our academy. We used to go and watch him quite a lot. There's no credentials to question there. If I pointed out that Westerman or Louie McCarthy-Scarsbrook counted because they played for our academy - that would be questionable. Although I'm quite sure they're only decent players because of that fact! Didn't Watts play for either our or your academy too?

And as an aside, I thought Turgut was starting to look a real player just before Salford got rid. Which makes what's happened an even bigger tragedy.

Yeah, I think quibbling about the definition for defunct rule is a bit daft. I’m interested in the comparison because this has been one of several problems for us in putting together competitive squads. Whether Will Oakes having been with Wakefield until he was 16 means he isn’t one of our own is much less interesting to me than whether he can become a top-10 winger in SL over the next couple of years, for example.

For some it’s a competition in of itself though, and you do get different views on who counts, and they’re often partisan. Liam Watts played one game as 16-year old for Cas against amateur opposition and so was discounted as a Rovers product by some despite fully meeting the official criteria. Westerman’s time in Hull’s youth ranks was occasionally flagged by hull fans, but usually only Rovers fans mention Abdull was with us before switching to Hull.

Re: COHA : Fri May 24, 2019 1:16 pm  

In case anyone is wondering....

RFL Salary Cap Rules wrote:

A club Trained Player is a player who has been on the Club's register for any 3 full Seasons
before the end of the Season in which he ceases to be eligable to play at Under 21 level.
For the avoidance of doubt, any time spent on the Register of another Club on Loan shall be
counted towards the 3 full Seasons, unless otherwise determined by the RFL.

If you want to know the definition of Under 21's then look it up!

[Mild Rover]

Re: COHA : Fri May 24, 2019 4:19 pm  

ccs wrote:

In case anyone is wondering....

If you want to know the definition of Under 21's then look it up!

Ahhh, I had forgotten it was carried over or was adopted as part of the salary cap rules, having been dropped from the quota rules. Those rules are so opaque that I can’t really be bothered with them. Also the dispensations are not generally relevant to Rovers!

What I mean is that the details of how we bring players in don’t matter all that much to me, other than how well it works. If bringing in (cherry picking) players like Kristian Bell, Liam Watts, Will Oakes or Will Dagger works, i’m happy with it. Same goes for doing better more locally. And if it doesn’t work, why not? The RFL’s Byzantine system of incentives - it changes faster than clubs can adapt to it anyway. The suspicion being that is because it adapts to reward whatever situation certain clubs find themselves in - central contracts and all that.

Re: COHA : Sat May 25, 2019 8:01 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

Same way I say tomato - correctly.

That sarcasm is a bit rich after some of the hyperbole that surrounded your most recent supposed golden generation. Some have emerged serviceable pros, and certainly they’re the best batch from either club for a while. But they were talked about as the basis of our international team for years to come in some quarters. okay, the lad Tomlinson was the worst offender but he’s been a contributor to the HDM... the sports section of which is a Hull FC fanzine, admittedly. However, he was hardly a lone voice in the wilderness.

Let’s be honest, either club would love a group like Wheeldon, Hall, Washbrook, G.Horne and Tommy Lee now - and they were thought by many to have not lived up to expectations.

Just a bit of fun mate, you know that, there is a post on the Rovers forum, that is comedy gold, the hatred of all things Hull is great, loads of post when we lose then nothing when we win, Connor needs to be sold, Hull getting all the decisions, Pearson leaving and saying we were full strength against Warrington and saying it should be an easy win in a mocking way (That backfired). I love reading some of the things on there, would love to post but I'd better banned straight away, as nothing can be challenged from a fan of another club.

Back on topic, agree with you, forwards we always seem to produce, but backs and particulary halfbacks just don't seem to kick on, I really thought one of Dean and HTW would make it.

[Mild Rover]

Re: COHA : Sat May 25, 2019 9:13 am  

Dave K. wrote:

Just a bit of fun mate, you know that,

Of course!

Dave K. wrote:

Back on topic, agree with you, forwards we always seem to produce, but backs and particulary halfbacks just don't seem to kick on, I really thought one of Dean and HTW would make it.

RBA makes a fair pointing about striving to match Wigan and Saints. However, I recall reading an announcement before the academy merger about the lads newly signed to the first year of Rovers’ scholarship. If memory my isn’t playing me false, the majority were from Skirlaugh or West Hull, with the odd one to two from Beverley or Myton etc. With Hull, i’d guess, also having signed players from Skirlaugh and WH, it did make me wonder how many those clubs had left in that age group, not on scholarship programmes. Also, do Saints and Wigan rely that heavily just on Blackbrook and St Pats and St Jude’s? Might have a look.