Re: westerman : Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:34 pm  

*1865* wrote:

Far too many people willing to swallow anything the club feeds them.

Who cares (I know a few do) but this is good news all around

Re: westerman : Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:40 pm  

Wouldn't be surprised if Lineham and Westerman start getting into the England squad now...

Re: westerman : Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:42 pm  

I think this is good business by the club. I don't think Westerman was irreplaceable (as I've said previously he's inconsistent IMO) and I think we have plenty of other options in the squad for the loose forward position. The Lineham sale will hurt us more IMO given the amount of tries he scored for us and I can see him coming back to haunt us in a Warrington shirt. I don't quite feel that will be the case with Westerman.

We've also got a fee (and a pretty substantial one too) for a player that only had a year left on his contract rather than losing him for nothing when his contract expired (as we did with Tom Briscoe). Whilst it doesn't particularly bother me, I can see why some are concerned about the club saying things like "we're not selling" only to then do just that. I get that things change but we do seem to be making a bit of a habit out of saying one thing and then doing the exact opposite so it is maybe something the club should look into as it's clearly rubbing some fans up the wrong way.

I also think that given some of the rumours about Westerman's off-field antics that it will be a boost in giving the squad a more professional attitude which has to be a good thing. It also sounds like we're going to improve the wing/centre which will give the squad more balance. However, I hope the Carney rumour isn't true because I fear he will have the wrong kind of influence on the dressing room. I'm also praying that it's not Welham because I'd rather see us hold onto the cap space for a mid-season signing.

Re: westerman : Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:51 pm  

Mild mannered Janitor wrote:

I am not here to disprove anything. Your comment on any earlier post said you didn't believe anything which came out of the club. Thats your stance, and fair enough. Don't read it then! There is not point if you not only do not believe its (without proof) but are actively getting uptight about it and feel the need to attack the club.

Could it possibly be the situation that Ellis's surgeon has told the club that he expects absolutely no further issues with his achiles and that he should be ready for action come the start of the season? Just perhaps, that to be on the safe side we safeguard players under contract in the same position in case the news was not quite as positive?

But of course, this would be a positive outlook. have no idea either way what the actual situation will be. I don't feel the need to doubt everything I read or believe everything I read unless it has a direct impact on me.

This is an open forum is it not, the purpose of which is to discuss things, voice opinions etc. (despite the bully tactics on here toward anyone with a differing viewpoint)

On this thread I haven't attacked anyone. If by me stating I don't beleive anything coming from the club is attacking then I'd disagree. I said I don't beleive anything on the back of lies, spin and deceit which is exactly what the club/AP have done.

That's not an attack that's a valid opinion based on what has actually happened. Going about things the way AP ha,s does him absolutely no favours whatsoever and he is very much disingenous to the fans, it alienates and angers many.
Of course certain things should be sorted behind closed doors but it's this constant rubbish, outright lies and bullcarp that come out of the club, instead of saying the actual truth, instead of sticking his hand up to say I was wrong, I made a massive mistake (without then blaming someone else with zero facts to back it up), to say sorry I'm going back on my word because...or whatever. But he doesn't, the club have to spin everything, he has to cover his tracks and the mistakes he's made with more lies and deceit.
As you said, I have no evidence on certain matters (the amount of fee, the actuality of why Westerman has left, Cap space etc), however the trail of how things have panned out, the things I mentioned didn't all happen by coincidence over one week.
I don't care that the club sold him, nor Lineham, I don't care that that goes against what AP said, the outcome of westerman going is the best for the club if that is to fit in JA and the other signings so that we have the best 17 on the park. What i do care about is the club/AP playing with a straight bat even when it comes down to very delicate matters or one that potentially leaves egg on the owners face as opposed to covering tracks with obvious untruths.

Re: westerman : Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:00 pm  

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

This is an open forum is it not, the purpose of which is to discuss things, voice opinions etc. (despite the bully tactics on here toward anyone with a differing viewpoint)

On this thread I haven't attacked anyone. If by me stating I don't beleive anything coming from the club is attacking then I'd disagree. I said I don't beleive anything on the back of lies, spin and deceit which is exactly what the club/AP have done.

That's not an attack that's a valid opinion based on what has actually happened. Going about the things the way AP has does him absolutely no favours whatsoever and he is very much disengenous to the fans, it alienate's and angers many.
Of course certain things should be sorted behind closed doors but it's this constant rubbish, outright lies and bullcarp that come out of the club, instead of saying the actual truth, instead of sticking his hand up to say I was wrong, I made a massive mistake (without then blaming someone else with zero facts to back it up), to say sorry I'm going back on my word because...or whatever. But he doesn't, the club have to spin everything, he has to cover his tracks and the mistakes he's made with more lies and deceit.
As you said, I have no evidence on certain matters (the amount of fee, the actuality of why Westerman has left, Cap space etc), however the trail of how things have panned out, the things I mentioned didn't all happen by coincidence over one week.
I don't care that the club sold him, nor Lineham, I don't care that that goes against what AP said, the outcome of westerman going is the best for the club if that is to fit in JA and the other signings so that we have the best 17 on the park. What i do care about is the club/AP playing with a straight bat even when it comes down to very delicate matters or one that potentially leaves egg on the owners face as opposed to covering tracks with obvious untruths.

Hi Knocker,

Genuine question but what are the things that you consider to be lies, spin and deceit exactly? I get the impress it's not just recent events but something that's got on your nerves over time?

Doc

Re: westerman : Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:09 pm  

I'm never quite sure what people expect to hear from the club regarding the possibility of selling players? Statements like 'We've not had any approaches from anyone regarding player X' or 'we have no intention of selling, he's a big part of our plans' are part and parcel of not just our club or even rugby league, but every sport where a player has a monetary value.

Every player has a price, but you don't make it easy for other teams to come and buy them on the cheap or free. If AP said something like, "Joe is unhappy and probably won't sign a new contract, so we'll listen to offers", as honest as it may be, doesn't maximize the potential value of that player.

I don't give a toss if AP or MT, were economical with the truth in statements to the press, so what? As long as they got the best deal they could for the club in the circumstances, then great, good on em.

We are fans. We don't have a divine right to be told every set of circumstances leading to a player's transfer. We leave that to the custodians of the club to deal with in whatever manner they choose. One thing I am sure of with AP is that he wants this club to make money. He has a a vested interest. The only way a rugby league club makes money is by performing well. Its as simple as that.

I just don't understand how people get so wound up about things like this (although to be fair it seems to be a select few)

Re: westerman : Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:33 pm  

https://www.clubcall.com/rugby-league/h ... 69108.html http://m.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/spo ... -1-5676743 http://rugbyleagueweek.com.au/koukash-b ... #f37d1227e http://m.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-war ... -1-5953514

https://www.clubcall.com/rugby-league/h ... 69108.html http://m.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/spo ... -1-5676743 http://rugbyleagueweek.com.au/koukash-b ... #f37d1227e http://m.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-war ... -1-5953514

Re: westerman : Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:59 pm  

Mrs Barista wrote: https://www.clubcall.com/rugby-league/higham-going-nowhere-1769108.html http://m.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/spo ... -1-5676743 http://rugbyleagueweek.com.au/koukash-b ... #f37d1227e http://m.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-war ... -1-5953514 Thanks - and to show its not just RL http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 789229.stm You can probably find examples for every transfer ever!

Mrs Barista wrote: https://www.clubcall.com/rugby-league/higham-going-nowhere-1769108.html http://m.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/spo ... -1-5676743 http://rugbyleagueweek.com.au/koukash-b ... #f37d1227e http://m.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-war ... -1-5953514 Thanks - and to show its not just RL http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 789229.stm You can probably find examples for every transfer ever!

Re: westerman : Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:12 pm  

Mrs Barista wrote: https://www.clubcall.com/rugby-league/higham-going-nowhere-1769108.html http://m.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/spo ... -1-5676743 http://rugbyleagueweek.com.au/koukash-b ... #f37d1227e http://m.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-war ... -1-5953514 And what of his warning of impending financial doom, followed by a bold statement about reinvesting all of the Westerman cash in an outside back. Either he's lying about the parlous nature of the clubs finances or he's lying about his intention to reinvest the cash.

Mrs Barista wrote: https://www.clubcall.com/rugby-league/higham-going-nowhere-1769108.html http://m.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/spo ... -1-5676743 http://rugbyleagueweek.com.au/koukash-b ... #f37d1227e http://m.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-war ... -1-5953514 And what of his warning of impending financial doom, followed by a bold statement about reinvesting all of the Westerman cash in an outside back. Either he's lying about the parlous nature of the clubs finances or he's lying about his intention to reinvest the cash.

Re: westerman : Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:14 pm  

Doc Brown wrote:

Hi Knocker,

Genuine question but what are the things that you consider to be lies, spin and deceit exactly? I get the impress it's not just recent events but something that's got on your nerves over time?

Doc

From this season?
Shaulgate, did you hear the Radford 'interview' that was so full of poop
The Academy merger
Income/attendances/threats about the future of the club.
Westerman
Gentle and McRae...yet again, till throwing the old chestnut about the previous 'regime' and its effects.
Just the other week an article using clever wording to make out we had new supporters to the club buying season passes when it was just memberships being sold.
Throw on top attacking/blaming the fans for a whole host of things.