Re: Best we can hope for is 8th : Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:39 pm  

fc baldy wrote:

But why play a virtual 1st team v Oldham..

Fear

Re: Best we can hope for is 8th : Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:44 pm  

Mrs Barista wrote:

OK, then. Burnett and Briscoe debuted in 2008, with Briscoe being picked up from school on the way to his debut at Warrington in the opening round that season. We already had 5 teenagers playing week in week out. Personally I wouldn't criticise Agar for failing to "introduce" more teenagers into this scenario when Broughton was available on loan.

Who knows? Maybe if he'd introduced more then we'd have brought through more than 2 regular 1st teamers in the last 10 years

Re: Best we can hope for is 8th : Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:46 pm  

B0NES wrote:

Some good point's there mark. We've been short of halves for some time and to constantly play Washbrook has been a p1ss poor decision by Agar when we have had potentially better halves within the 25.

It's symptomatic of agar's whole "risk free" approach.

Re: Best we can hope for is 8th : Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:50 pm  

Jake the Peg wrote:

Who knows? Maybe if he'd introduced more then we'd have brought through more than 2 regular 1st teamers in the last 10 years

Agree that this is completely unacceptable. Who's the second one, after Houghton?

Re: Best we can hope for is 8th : Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:54 pm  

Mrs Barista wrote:

Agree that this is completely unacceptable. Who's the second one, after Houghton?

The one even agar couldn't ruin

Re: Best we can hope for is 8th : Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:39 pm  

Mrs Barista wrote:

OK, then. Burnett and Briscoe debuted in 2008, with Briscoe being picked up from school on the way to his debut at Warrington in the opening round that season. We already had 5 teenagers playing week in week out. Personally I wouldn't criticise Agar for failing to "introduce" more teenagers into this scenario when Broughton was available on loan.

On that last point, though; exactly how much difference is there between another teenager from our academy, and a 20 year old from someone else's academy who also doesn't have a single SL appearance either?

I don't really see how you can suggest that an equally inexperienced loanee is any safer an option just because he's out of his teens. We could just as easily given Ashley Thackeray (who's actually older than Broughton) a few more games on the wing and played Briscoe at centre, seeing as that's where he's been playing for the academy. We brought 2 different outside backs in from Leeds that season rather than give Thackeray a go. Alright, he's moved on now and it looks like other SL clubs weren't interested, but I just don't understand why we have kids on our books we don't even look at properly and then go shopping down Headingley way. Our decisions to cast aside players without giving them a chance are sometimes strange to me, I still don't understand why Tuffour was never even given a crack yet Lyne got a 3 year deal, there never looked that much between them IMO.

Re: Best we can hope for is 8th : Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:49 pm  

carl_spackler wrote:

On that last point, though; exactly how much difference is there between another teenager from our academy, and a 20 year old from someone else's academy who also doesn't have a single SL appearance either?

I don't really see how you can suggest that an equally inexperienced loanee is any safer an option just because he's out of his teens. We could just as easily given Ashley Thackeray (who's actually older than Broughton) a few more games on the wing and played Briscoe at centre, seeing as that's where he's been playing for the academy. We brought 2 different outside backs in from Leeds that season rather than give Thackeray a go. Alright, he's moved on now and it looks like other SL clubs weren't interested, but I just don't understand why we have kids on our books we don't even look at properly and then go shopping down Headingley way. Our decisions to cast aside players without giving them a chance are sometimes strange to me, I still don't understand why Tuffour was never even given a crack yet Lyne got a 3 year deal, there never looked that much between them IMO.

Fair point, but in the case of Broughton, I guess we got offered him through the Hetherington relationship, and at a time when we already had a lot of teenagers playing and were typically without 8 first teamers, Broughton represented a better option than what we had available and we could fit him under the cap. Tuffour is an interesting one - quite liked him and he looked OK last time I saw him in the championship. Something to do with not wanting 4 wingers in our 25 top earners, maybe?

Re: Best we can hope for is 8th : Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:10 pm  

Mrs Barista wrote:

Fair point, but in the case of Broughton, I guess we got offered him through the Hetherington relationship, and at a time when we already had a lot of teenagers playing and were typically without 8 first teamers, Broughton represented a better option than what we had available and we could fit him under the cap.

But again, he was 20. Is that so much better than a teenager? What exactly made him a better option than what we had available when none had seen first team action? IIRC, Broughton wasn't even full time with Leeds at the time, and they hadn't even given him a squad number. And also, Thackeray was 21 at the time. In hindsight, Broughton has gone on to more success, but I just don't understand why we seem to prefer to try Leeds youngsters than our own at times. Williams was another we had that season, and he wasn't up to much at all yet we preferred him to our own.

Mrs Barista wrote:

Tuffour is an interesting one - quite liked him and he looked OK last time I saw him in the championship. Something to do with not wanting 4 wingers in our 25 top earners, maybe?

What really baffles me is the huge disparity in the treatment of the 2 players. One sent on his way without even being given a first team opportunity, the other a 3 year deal? Tuffour was also the bigger and stronger lad, which I would have thought could have put him slightly ahead of Lyne in his readiness for first team rugby. I would have thought you should at least have a look at both before making the decision. We had 4 games of the season left and only 1 fit winger, why didn't Lyne and Tuffour get 2 games each?

Can't see it mattering about the 25 man thing, we've picked from only 22 different players this year, with 2 of those being brought in after the season started (3 if you count Phelps, but then he's a direct replacement for Tansey).

Re: Best we can hope for is 8th : Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:02 am  

The point for me is that we have seen in the last two years lots of young players been given their at various clubs largely due to the franchise system. Despite the fact we have some excellent prospects in the reserves who have we blooded and given regular game time too?

Probably only Lyn consistently so how nearer are we to knowing about the likes of Green, Kent, Cunningham and Aldous. Why don't we bring in youngsters when a senior player is injured?

I understand Agar being under pressure and needing results and having the likes of Whiting and Turner does not help in some ways as we have utility players to use which perhaps prevents the youngsters getting a shot.

Re: Best we can hope for is 8th : Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:24 am  

I think it's a difficult one. Let's take Lynne as an example, Agar has played him a couple of times this year but there is already fans who want him replacing with a so called senior player without giving him any real time to prove himself in the 1st team. I think it's hard to win because it's such a results based business, especially at Hull and especially when your obviously under the pressure that Agar is under regarding his job.

I think realistically we can only probably expect to see a couple out of the current 20s play regular first team in the future, I hope I'm wrong but I've not seen any real stand outs. When you look back over previous years when you saw a Schofield playing in the A team or an Horne you instantly knew that these kids would make it, Briscoe was probably the last one who I had that feeling about.