Re: Wigan Warriors - Away : Sat Aug 19, 2023 1:15 pm  

Zig wrote:

Your not and he is useless. In fact all the officials were poor just like both teams.

And Liams knock on Zig, did you see this?

[Mild Rover]

Re: Wigan Warriors - Away : Sat Aug 19, 2023 4:38 pm  

ComeOnYouUll wrote:

I know we havw had a few golden point wins in recent seasons like Wigan away and Catalans away but it's a poor way to lose a game. If it must be kept why not two points for the win and one for a defeat so in other words a draw at the end of eighty minutes and a bonus point for the winning score..

Are you joking or can you really not see the problems with two results for one game? Or odd incentive for a non-aggression pact it creates late in tied games?

Re: Wigan Warriors - Away : Sat Aug 19, 2023 4:52 pm  

As paying spectators the Golden point brings great drama and gives some value for money. Of course it hurts when you're on the wrong end of the result. But when you get it it's a fantastic feeling.

I think the Sneyd winner at Wigan was the first Super League Golden point. The reaction from our fans that day was like we won a final. I was covered in lager as everyone with a beer in their hand at the time threw their drink in the air in pure delight.

A draw is a dull feeling.

I know which I prefer.

Re: Wigan Warriors - Away : Sat Aug 19, 2023 9:54 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

Are you joking or can you really not see the problems with two results for one game? Or odd incentive for a non-aggression pact it creates late in tied games?

I'm not quite sure what problems it would create tbh.
Perhaps I'm being dense and missing something obvious but I don't see it.

Re: Wigan Warriors - Away : Sat Aug 19, 2023 10:06 pm  

Gutting end to the game, but shows where we’re at now - taking it to Wigan at their place is applaudable. It’s the culture and attitude we’ve lacked for years and it seems it’s finally taken/taking a turn for the positive.

On another note, can’t help but feel disappointed with Carlos. What’s the point of putting in a tackle effort like that, 4 mins from time when we’re winning? Just play the sets out and be safe. We defended well all game and it wasn’t needed. Another senior player who, it can be argued, unnecessarily let the team down again. Griffinesque.

Anyway, the replays show their first try was a mile forward. All our players arguing for it and even Marshall’s reaction gives it away. Cheers, Kendall.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Wigan Warriors - Away : Sat Aug 19, 2023 11:37 pm  

scarrie wrote:

I'm not quite sure what problems it would create tbh.
Perhaps I'm being dense and missing something obvious but I don't see it.

There’s the basic principles that every game should have the same value for fairness and the integrity of the competition, and that teams contesting them should never have an interest in collaborating. And just the natural balance of if there is a winner there has be a loser - this isn’t a primary school sports day.

You might point out that in association football a won league game is typically worth 3 points whereas as drawn one is only worth only 2 (1 point each), but one team’s gain comes at a cost to the other. Here you’d be creating a new point at no cost to either competing team. The cost is instead borne indirectly by the rest of the league.

While all the teams in a league are rivals, so 2 for us and 0 for them is better than 2 and 1, sometimes that rivalry isn’t very direct. For example, late in the season if one team is trying to secure a top 2 spot and another is just trying to make the top 6, banking a point each and manufacturing a third by waiting a couple minutes for for the hooter to end the 80 minutes before starting with the drop goal attempts becomes the smart thing to do. Vaguely like the Disgrace of Gijon (W. Germany vs Austria, 1982); admittedly in miniature.

Re: Wigan Warriors - Away : Sun Aug 20, 2023 6:17 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

There’s the basic principles that every game should have the same value for fairness and the integrity of the competition, and that teams contesting them should never have an interest in collaborating. And just the natural balance of if there is a winner there has be a loser - this isn’t a primary school sports day.

You might point out that in association football a won league game is typically worth 3 points whereas as drawn one is only worth only 2 (1 point each), but one team’s gain comes at a cost to the other. Here you’d be creating a new point at no cost to either competing team. The cost is instead borne indirectly by the rest of the league.

While all the teams in a league are rivals, so 2 for us and 0 for them is better than 2 and 1, sometimes that rivalry isn’t very direct. For example, late in the season if one team is trying to secure a top 2 spot and another is just trying to make the top 6, banking a point each and manufacturing a third by waiting a couple minutes for for the hooter to end the 80 minutes before starting with the drop goal attempts becomes the smart thing to do. Vaguely like the Disgrace of Gijon (W. Germany vs Austria, 1982); admittedly in miniature.

Possible scenario but not very likely.

Re: Wigan Warriors - Away : Sun Aug 20, 2023 6:54 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

There’s the basic principles that every game should have the same value for fairness and the integrity of the competition, and that teams contesting them should never have an interest in collaborating. And just the natural balance of if there is a winner there has be a loser - this isn’t a primary school sports day.

You might point out that in association football a won league game is typically worth 3 points whereas as drawn one is only worth only 2 (1 point each), but one team’s gain comes at a cost to the other. Here you’d be creating a new point at no cost to either competing team. The cost is instead borne indirectly by the rest of the league.

While all the teams in a league are rivals, so 2 for us and 0 for them is better than 2 and 1, sometimes that rivalry isn’t very direct. For example, late in the season if one team is trying to secure a top 2 spot and another is just trying to make the top 6, banking a point each and manufacturing a third by waiting a couple minutes for for the hooter to end the 80 minutes before starting with the drop goal attempts becomes the smart thing to do. Vaguely like the Disgrace of Gijon (W. Germany vs Austria, 1982); admittedly in miniature.

Seems unlikely, nothing you've written there convinces me it would be in anyway a problem.
Also I'm not sure how its really all that different in that regard to bonus points in RU or County Championship cricket. Those are also points gained at no 'cost' to other teams.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Wigan Warriors - Away : Sun Aug 20, 2023 8:16 am  

Seemingly unlikely things happen all the time, and RL has a history of failing to ask ‘what if?’.

What if a club (Wigan) decides to just ignore the salary cap?
What if a big club like Bradford gets into financial difficulty?
What if an already relegated club (Widnes) end up having a pretty substantial financial incentive to see their opponents (Hull KR) not lose and end up in the MPG and possibly get relegated beside them?

The RU bonus point system is stupid, imo, and I don’t want to defend it. However, it is intended to encourage try-scoring and avoid towel chucking. To employ something even worse in RL would be sad, and a new test of patience for me with those who govern it.

Retaining GP because a drawn game at 80 minutes is regarded as undesirable, while rewarding teams who are drawing at 80 minutes (because, actually, we like draws…?) is inelegant soggy cake-ism.

If we keep GP (I don’t think we should for league games, personally) and we really can’t face GP red in tooth and claw, we could go:
4 points for a win
3 points for a GP win
2 points for a draw
1 point for a GP loss
0 points for a loss

Complicated solution, especially for me as I don’t have a problem with drawn league games - they’re rare but often quite thrilling affairs in RL. But fair and logical.

I love obscure and complicated stuff. County Championship cricket is too far even for me though. I would gladly read a short (that’s rich, I know) summary but I’m not looking it up!

Re: Wigan Warriors - Away : Sun Aug 20, 2023 9:08 am  

I also don't mind draws and would happily ditch GP for league games but if they do insist on having it then I do think the extra point system would improve matters.
I honestly don't see how it's more prone to manipulation than the current scoring system or the more comple one you suggest. Or perhaps I'm just missing your point.
It's all academic anyway as the current GP system appears here to stay soI'll just have to lump it.

At the risk of thread drift.....the CC cricket system is as follows:
There are 5 first innings batting pts available, scored at 250+,300+,350+,400+ and 450+ runs.
There also 3 first innings bowling points on offer, scored at 3+,6+ and 9+ wickets taken.
The rest of the scoring is actually more confusing than the bonus points. It's exceedingly cricket.