Re: BLM Rugby teams : Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:44 pm  

IR80 wrote:

Again, I agree. Why are the Police investigating, are they going to investigate the multiple churches I walk or cycle past that have quotes from the Bible on boards outside, or Government anti-smoking messages, or in fact, anything that expresses opinion?

I agree, I'm struggling to see what 'crime' is being investigated.

Re: BLM Rugby teams : Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:07 pm  

Large Paws wrote:

I agree, I'm struggling to see what 'crime' is being investigated.

It seems the guy who organised it is a pretty vile individual, so the Police possibly knew that already... they have said they are not taking any action but his g/f or fiancee or whatever has been sacked for some comments she has posted on Facebook. The banner in itself was not a crime, it seems the intention was to cause offense as opposed to simply providing a point of view, still doesn't warrant the media coverage it recieved, as bonaire said, it is what these things (from all sides) lead to that is the main concern, people were more bothered about the Churchill statue getting defaced and having to be boarded up than they were the protest itself. I dare say had The Mayor London been Boris and said he was "protecting a symbol of national pride" there wouldn't't have been half as much 'noise'. And this is the problem, it isn't the snowflake that starts the avalanche, it's the village at the bottom of the mountain where people are at risk.

[Chris71]

Re: BLM Rugby teams : Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:29 pm  

The only way to end racism is for colour to be removed altogether particularly in the way media report.
Why did it have to be reported as white cop kills Blackman? Would it have been reported as black cop kills white man? Or just just reported as police brutality cops kills man?
The BLM movement to me now seems more of a mob mentality out to stir up racial tension and their cause and voice is getting lost in all the over hyping etc. . The BLM movement do not seem to speak out so much about black on black deaths which is also a big problem & is just as important in terms black lives mattering.
Yes there is racism in the world along with all kinds of discrimination and it’s very hard to rid the world completely of such things. All that the recent protests with violence and trying to wipe out history is doing is setting us back decades.
All lives matter no matter your what colour that life is.
Sadly in today’s world you can’t have open and honest debate for fear of upsetting some people/groups etc or being classified as, racist, homophobic, transphobic etc if you are not the right colour or representation etc. The so called celebrity outrage too is nauseating as half of them haven’t got a clue or live in the real world but see it as a way to garner media attention.
Question is, is the world becoming better or worse with it all?

No doubt someone will criticise this post because they feel offended and if that’s the case it’s just proves the point.

Re: BLM Rugby teams : Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:15 pm  

Chris71 wrote:

The only way to end racism is for colour to be removed altogether particularly in the way media report.
Why did it have to be reported as white cop kills Blackman? Would it have been reported as black cop kills white man? Or just just reported as police brutality cops kills man?
The BLM movement to me now seems more of a mob mentality out to stir up racial tension and their cause and voice is getting lost in all the over hyping etc. . The BLM movement do not seem to speak out so much about black on black deaths which is also a big problem & is just as important in terms black lives mattering.
Yes there is racism in the world along with all kinds of discrimination and it’s very hard to rid the world completely of such things. That says all the recent protests and violence and trying to wipe out history is doing is setting us back decades.
All lives matter no matter your what colour that life is.
Sadly in today’s world you can’t have open and honest debate for fear of upsetting some people/groups etc or being classified as, racist, homophobic, transphobic etc if you are not the right colour or representation etc. The so called celebrity outrage too is nauseating as half of them haven’t got a clue or live in the real world but see it as a way to garner media attention.
Question is, is the world becoming better or worse with it all?

No doubt someone will criticise this post because they feel offended and if that’s the case it’s just proves the point.

Bang on chris, great post. And the answer to your question, probably worst, undoing all the great progress of the last 80 years

Re: BLM Rugby teams : Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:24 pm  

Chris71 wrote:

The only way to end racism is for colour to be removed altogether particularly in the way media report.
Why did it have to be reported as white cop kills Blackman? Would it have been reported as black cop kills white man? Or just just reported as police brutality cops kills man?
The BLM movement to me now seems more of a mob mentality out to stir up racial tension and their cause and voice is getting lost in all the over hyping etc. . The BLM movement do not seem to speak out so much about black on black deaths which is also a big problem & is just as important in terms black lives mattering.
Yes there is racism in the world along with all kinds of discrimination and it’s very hard to rid the world completely of such things. All that the recent protests with violence and trying to wipe out history is doing is setting us back decades.
All lives matter no matter your what colour that life is.
Sadly in today’s world you can’t have open and honest debate for fear of upsetting some people/groups etc or being classified as, racist, homophobic, transphobic etc if you are not the right colour or representation etc. The so called celebrity outrage too is nauseating as half of them haven’t got a clue or live in the real world but see it as a way to garner media attention.
Question is, is the world becoming better or worse with it all?

No doubt someone will criticise this post because they feel offended and if that’s the case it’s just proves the point.

Excellent post.

Re: BLM Rugby teams : Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:53 pm  

There's a very good documentary on Iplayer right now called "I am not your negro". Recommend it, think it won quite a lot of awards.

Re: BLM Rugby teams : Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:54 pm  

Large Paws wrote:

Excellent post.

Indeed, and it is the majority view.

I posted this on my Fb yesterday , be interested to know what others think:

The systemic attempts to destruct history need to stop, the world was a very different place 20 years ago, let alone 100,200,500 years ago. If we continue down the route of selectively applying the culture of today on the actions of yesterday it shows that we are not really learning from our mistakes.

Zacariah Pearson tried to break the blockade during the American Civil War to import cotton, not because the cotton was farmed by slaves, but because the City of Hull was falling further in to decline, slavery was a fact of life at the time. That doesn't mean he was a racist. Yet some would have the park renamed and his plaque removed.

Even the Star Spangled Banner was penned by a slave owner (and hypocrite):

Wiki entry start:
Key owned slaves from 1800, during which time abolitionists ridiculed his words, claiming that America was more like the "Land of the Free and Home of the Oppressed".[8] As District Attorney, he suppressed abolitionists and did not support an immediate end to slavery.[9][10] He was also a leader of the American Colonization Society which sent freed slaves to Africa.[11][12] He freed some of his slaves in the 1830s, paying one ex-slave as his farm foreman. He publicly criticized slavery and gave free legal representation to some slaves seeking freedom, but he also represented owners of runaway slaves.
end Wiki entry :

The third verse makes comments to those 'Colonial Marines' (black men fighting for the British in return for their freedom) and how the last ship they would sail would be to a watery grave.

Will Americans stop singing it when they, hypocritically, take a knee?

If they are so het up by oppression and inequality, will Cheerleaders be gone from NFL games, or is moral indignation reserved for the actions of white men against black men. Will rap music be banned (basically glorification of drugs, gangs, guns and violence), I very much doubt it.

Can you see the Aussies kneeling when Advance Australia fair is played ("we are young and free", hmmm, tell that to the Aboriginals that have inhabited Australia for 60,000 years and are still persecuted and prosecuted and were subjugated with alcohol and gambling)

People talk of banning "Swing low, sweet chariot", what next, ban "Land of Hope & Glory", "Rule Britannia", "Jerusalem", all are Nationalistic and Imperialistic. Don't even start on "God Save the Queen"

Basically, where does it stop?

Our history isn't always something we should be proud of, but nor should we selectively decide which bits to keep and which to discard because it is socially awkward to even speak of it...

Racism is awful, as is all oppression, but the situation is improving each decade, people have shown their feelings with protests, an incident of racial or oppressive nature triggers these kind of protests on a roughly 10 year cycle, and it always will, there will always be the oppressor and the oppressed, it is nature, and not just human nature.

Conflating racism, subjugation,opression, inequality and intolerance into one cause under a three word banner ,as is the trend, lessens the importance of each in their own right.

[Mild Rover]

Re: BLM Rugby teams : Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:43 pm  

There were elements of the post I’m excerpting from that I agree with, but I like to argue, so...

IR80 wrote:

Will rap music be banned (basically glorification of drugs, gangs, guns and violence), I very much doubt it.

That certainly exists, but c’mon. A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul and I’m sure plenty of others who, if we had any users who had taken on any popular culture references since the mid-90s, those users could tell us about.

IR80 wrote:

there will always be the oppressor and the oppressed, it is nature, and not just human nature.

It is true (well, until those benevolent AIs that I mentioned a while back come along). But just because it is true, it doesn’t make it right. And if oppression is inevitable, isn’t resistance to it not only also inevitable but more legitimate?

IR80 wrote:

Conflating racism, subjugation,opression, inequality and intolerance into one cause under a three word banner ,as is the trend, lessens the importance of each in their own right.

It’s an interesting point, but if a problem is seen as being systemic then it possibly begs a holistic approach to solve. There’s lot of stuff over here in liberalsnowflakeland about how these things intersect - if you’re black and a woman, for example.

Re: BLM Rugby teams : Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:58 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

There were elements of the post I’m excerpting from that I agree with, but I like to argue, so...

That certainly exists, but c’mon. A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul and I’m sure plenty of others who, if we had any users who had taken on any popular culture references since the mid-90s, those users could tell us about.

there's quite a big difference between songs about enjoying things (admittedly some of those things illegal) and 'smacking you b. up', 'putting a cap in someone' etc.

It is true (well, until those benevolent AIs that I mentioned a while back come along). But just because it is true, it doesn’t make it right. And if oppression is inevitable, isn’t resistance to it not only also inevitable but more legitimate?

at no point am I saying that resisting oppression is anything other than legitimate, moreso I am saying that we cannot selectively chose to remove the facts about oppression from history

It’s an interesting point, but if a problem is seen as being systemic then it possibly begs a holistic approach to solve. There’s lot of stuff over here in liberalsnowflakeland about how these things intersect - if you’re black and a woman, for example.

I'm a bit unsure where you are going with this, there is a stark difference between using a cultural trope and conflating individual aims and ideals behind a single banner

But, back on topic, I suspect now (or soon) the pubs and cinemas will be open that the protests will fall away like they always do, the BLM point has been made, any action or inaction that comes out of it will be far outweighed by the damage those on both sides have done by hijacking a legitimate cause for more inflammatory actions. (we should probably take this to The Sin Bin M.R, way off the original intend3d topic now I suspect)

Re: BLM Rugby teams : Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:16 am  

it should not be ,black lives matter or white lives matter,it should be ALL LIVES MATTER>