So exactly were are we going as a club !! : Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:39 pm  

well that was hard going wasn't it? But although its only the start of 2024, and some would say early days, for many of us in reality its all pretty depressing yet quite predictable in many ways.

I guess really you can’t go too much on the first game of the season but the signs were there for all to see against Wigan as well and we all tried to make excuses and indeed, this week we did suffer as much adversity as you could probably have in one game but that’s no real excuses because it was very very poor. we have made pretty second-rate signings when judged against some of our piers in super league. Smith isn’t a miracle worker and although I’m sure he picks the players he wants to bring in, his choice is restricted by the budgetary constraints put upon him by the owner through the club’s financial situation.

Adam is the owner and yes he’s brought us some great times, the best day of my life in fact and we’d have been stuffed without him and I really like the bloke.
\
However, he says he would welcome investors to the club but would he??? Because to me reading between the lines and knowing in the past how he runs his organisations he does seem to like to be the sole boss of things and had another investor or two been attracted to the club I think we would have signed better players year on year (including a couple of Marquee signings that used to be the hallmark of the club in the past) and replaced the class we were losing. That’s the crux of the issue for me because Smith is just playing the cards he is dealt. All this last big payday stuff is rubbish, he a proud man and proven to be a bloody good coach, but it’s just bricks without straw.

We haven’t had a real in your face leader since Ellis and we certainly haven’t replaced Sneyd, Swift or Connor or latterly Clifford when top clubs would have recognised them as the bed rock on which we build a team for the future and probably persuaded them not to leave, in fact at other clubs having seen the progress made they would possibly have been content to stay. Good teams get good players and add to them and when they have difficult, but gifted, individuals (like Connor) they manage them. I know players cite family reasons etc for moving but it’s a short career and if you’re getting well paid and can see a future to win trophies whilst getting exposure and acclaim from the fans then generally you don’t move. As far as imports are concerned we are now resign to signing players coming here to make a name for themselves and then go back home more lucrative deals (Clifford) or teams with better prospects (Satae for example).

Covid certainly hasn’t helped but since 2016/17 everything has slipped back at our club, if we sign quality players they seem to have injury baggage, good and great players have been replaced with mediocre ones, we have had two cheap and cheerful coaches before Smith came along and the ‘smokescreen’ of youth development and the cost of it, has been used to disguise somewhat just what we are signing to replace the quality players we lose. We all love the youngsters coming through of course we do but Super League is a brutal affair and as such you can’t play more than two or three greenhorns in a team for any length of time, it just doesn’t work. It’s a long road to the topped and many youngsters fall by the wayside, but across the main squad you have to focus on replacing like for like otherwise you go backwards.

The only thing that hasn’t slipped back is us lot the loyal and long-suffering fans because if anything we have grown in number since 2017 or at least stayed constantly at a level many clubs can only dream of. I know people who can no longer go who still buy season tickets just to support the club. Perhaps had we all voted with our feet a few years ago then things might have changed, just to ensure we survived, but why worry too much about a backward progression if the stakeholders continue to support? Now we already have a ward full of casualties, a loss to start the season off against the worst of enemies, the morons baying from the east everywhere we go and no cap space (apparently) to change things, even if those players were available. So once again it’s going to be a long season, but one year the fans might just get fed up and see what is happening and then we are in trouble, but for now forget coach’s owners and players our greatest asset is us lot the fans!!!!! I remember perhaps 15 or so odd years ago on here the famous Hutchie saying that we were ‘the cash cows of the club and being hauled over the coals by the then board for saying it. I wonder if he has a feeling of de je vue now?

So that's my take on it however, having come down a bit from last night for me a season ticket holder of 64 years the club appears to be slipping back from being one of the games top set ups to mediocrity at best, trouble is we all love em and many of us always will, but surely we can't go on like this? perhaps I'm over reacting, old people eh???? Just my view on it all, but I'd be interesting to know what others think about it all! It's not knee jerk after one game just a real concern for where we actually are!!!

Re: So exactly were are we going as a club !! : Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:25 pm  

The Dentist Wilf wrote:

well that was hard going wasn't it? But although its only the start of 2024, and some would say early days, for many of us in reality its all pretty depressing yet quite predictable in many ways.

I guess really you can’t go too much on the first game of the season but the signs were there for all to see against Wigan as well and we all tried to make excuses and indeed, this week we did suffer as much adversity as you could probably have in one game but that’s no real excuses because it was very very poor. we have made pretty second-rate signings when judged against some of our piers in super league. Smith isn’t a miracle worker and although I’m sure he picks the players he wants to bring in, his choice is restricted by the budgetary constraints put upon him by the owner through the club’s financial situation.

Adam is the owner and yes he’s brought us some great times, the best day of my life in fact and we’d have been stuffed without him and I really like the bloke.
\
However, he says he would welcome investors to the club but would he??? Because to me reading between the lines and knowing in the past how he runs his organisations he does seem to like to be the sole boss of things and had another investor or two been attracted to the club I think we would have signed better players year on year (including a couple of Marquee signings that used to be the hallmark of the club in the past) and replaced the class we were losing. That’s the crux of the issue for me because Smith is just playing the cards he is dealt. All this last big payday stuff is rubbish, he a proud man and proven to be a bloody good coach, but it’s just bricks without straw.

We haven’t had a real in your face leader since Ellis and we certainly haven’t replaced Sneyd, Swift or Connor or latterly Clifford when top clubs would have recognised them as the bed rock on which we build a team for the future and probably persuaded them not to leave, in fact at other clubs having seen the progress made they would possibly have been content to stay. Good teams get good players and add to them and when they have difficult, but gifted, individuals (like Connor) they manage them. I know players cite family reasons etc for moving but it’s a short career and if you’re getting well paid and can see a future to win trophies whilst getting exposure and acclaim from the fans then generally you don’t move. As far as imports are concerned we are now resign to signing players coming here to make a name for themselves and then go back home more lucrative deals (Clifford) or teams with better prospects (Satae for example).

Covid certainly hasn’t helped but since 2016/17 everything has slipped back at our club, if we sign quality players they seem to have injury baggage, good and great players have been replaced with mediocre ones, we have had two cheap and cheerful coaches before Smith came along and the ‘smokescreen’ of youth development and the cost of it, has been used to disguise somewhat just what we are signing to replace the quality players we lose. We all love the youngsters coming through of course we do but Super League is a brutal affair and as such you can’t play more than two or three greenhorns in a team for any length of time, it just doesn’t work. It’s a long road to the topped and many youngsters fall by the wayside, but across the main squad you have to focus on replacing like for like otherwise you go backwards.

The only thing that hasn’t slipped back is us lot the loyal and long-suffering fans because if anything we have grown in number since 2017 or at least stayed constantly at a level many clubs can only dream of. I know people who can no longer go who still buy season tickets just to support the club. Perhaps had we all voted with our feet a few years ago then things might have changed, just to ensure we survived, but why worry too much about a backward progression if the stakeholders continue to support? Now we already have a ward full of casualties, a loss to start the season off against the worst of enemies, the morons baying from the east everywhere we go and no cap space (apparently) to change things, even if those players were available. So once again it’s going to be a long season, but one year the fans might just get fed up and see what is happening and then we are in trouble, but for now forget coach’s owners and players our greatest asset is us lot the fans!!!!! I remember perhaps 15 or so odd years ago on here the famous Hutchie saying that we were ‘the cash cows of the club and being hauled over the coals by the then board for saying it. I wonder if he has a feeling of de je vue now?

So that's my take on it however, having come down a bit from last night for me a season ticket holder of 64 years the club appears to be slipping back from being one of the games top set ups to mediocrity at best, trouble is we all love em and many of us always will, but surely we can't go on like this? perhaps I'm over reacting, old people eh???? Just my view on it all, but I'd be interesting to know what others think about it all! It's not knee jerk after one game just a real concern for where we actually are!!!

in short then wilf your not happy

Re: So exactly were are we going as a club !! : Sat Feb 17, 2024 12:17 am  

We are way under cap,got a DJ signing the players,which has been a disaster for years now,giving out 3/4 year deals to players who simply weren’t or aren’t deserving of them.We have gone from Motu Tony to James Clark,a pure mess.For this year he made signings in panic mode when he couldn’t sign quality.We have a hooker playing 7,another half who couldn’t get much game time at Wakefield and an NRL player In Okunbor who is nowhere the standard we have had previously

Re: So exactly were are we going as a club !! : Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:05 am  

jimmyfivebellies wrote:

We are way under cap,got a DJ signing the players,which has been a disaster for years now,giving out 3/4 year deals to players who simply weren’t or aren’t deserving of them.We have gone from Motu Tony to James Clark,a pure mess.For this year he made signings in panic mode when he couldn’t sign quality.We have a hooker playing 7,another half who couldn’t get much game time at Wakefield and an NRL player In Okunbor who is nowhere the standard we have had previously

Do you really think Clarke chooses who we sign and not Smith?

Re: So exactly were are we going as a club !! : Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:15 am  

Whovers planned our halfback situation needs sacking

Re: So exactly were are we going as a club !! : Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:22 am  

Rocknrolla69er wrote:

Whovers planned our halfback situation needs sacking

Not sure what else we could have done, only really Clune available and he choose Hudds.

We could have held on and see if anything becomes available, but that would have been a risk, as we didn't know the quota rules were changing, imagine if we had signed Volkman.

This clause thing needs looking at though.

Re: So exactly were are we going as a club !! : Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:04 am  

Dave K. wrote:

Not sure what else we could have done, only really Clune available and he choose Hudds.

We could have held on and see if anything becomes available, but that would have been a risk, as we didn't know the quota rules were changing, imagine if we had signed Volkman.

This clause thing needs looking at though.

Cust, Fages, Nikorima, Croft, Clune, May, Frawley, Moylan...even Abdul were all available, we either didn't offer enough to tempt them to us or we're just not an attractive proposition as a club anymore

Re: So exactly were are we going as a club !! : Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:31 am  

I’m pretty much the same as you Pete, started watching FC proper in late 50’s after spending a couple of seasons getting in at 3/4 time when the gates opened and sliding down the hill at Gordon Street end. I seem to remember getting tickets from West Dock Ave Junior School. I just keep on renewing my pass because that’s what I do. I must admit that I just don’t get excited about games anymore, I used to sit before games in anticipation and my knees used to start knocking about 5 minutes to kick off. On Thursday’s Derby day, I felt absolutely nothing prior to or during the game and was resigned to a hefty defeat. I think this is probably one of the worst teams I’ve watched since the 70’s but even then we had the likes of Chris Davidson and Terry Devonshire all heart and club men. Unfortunately I’ve slipped into the malaise that surrounds the club now and I truly believe that AP is using the IMG grading to maintain top flight status whilst underfunding the playing side to pay off debts and I don’t think that’s going to change anytime soon unless someone else comes along with a fortune and as you say, AP accepts that they will expect to have a huge say in what happens at the club. What happens this season will have a huge impact on whether I maintain my blind obedience and carry on purchasing our passes because it’s all becoming a bit too much now, to be honest, the only good thing about game day is that my eldest grandson has become interested God help him and he occasionally attends with us.

Re: So exactly were are we going as a club !! : Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:49 am  

I'm just hoping we become of those clubs that investors look at and think 'there is money to be made there's. If we were to get another 2 investors on board, help out AP and start actually spending the cap maybe a marquee or two.

If I remember rightly, before COVID, our finances were actually pretty good and one of a few making a profit.

I believe that we are spending well under the salary cap, but spending AP's cap, saving money to help pay off the gov loan. After that, hopefully will start to put money into the squad again

Re: So exactly were are we going as a club !! : Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:53 am  

Nowhere without investment would be my blunt summary.

Licensing may save us from relegation but to be honest limping on zombie like with only the stadium, crowds and social media likes wont be a barrell of laughs either. I recall the club took the foot off the gas last time SL had licencing (2009) and ran things on the cheap.

And realistically why would anyone invest in RL, TV deal gradually reducing, every new gimmic to grow the sport fails. Unless you are a diehard fan whos some how come into millions why would you bother?