: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:03 pm  

Dave T wrote:

I'm not saying anybody deserves to be knocked back, but the RFL have given your club enough tickets to cover your regular fans. No doubt you will quote the couple of games over 5k again, yet you don't quote the low attendances you have had this year. I saw one that was less then 2k not so long ago, although that one may have been wrong.

Yes you are, and have repeatedly

Dave T wrote:

They have done exactly that. How do you know how many they have held back for the 9's? You don't. For all we know, the sponsorship deal with Northern Rail and Co-Op as well as other partners may mean that a good portion of tickets not allocated to the clubs have been taken up.

No they haven't. All We can go on is the amount both clubs have allocated and sold. That figure comes to 7,200. The rest have been held back for the x9's and sponsors. Unless both sets of fans have, somehow, been allowed to buy the majority of the x9's tickets, that's an unreasonable allocation for something which is only a warm up side show imo. Widnes fans have not been allowed to buy directly from the RFL for final tickets.

Dave T wrote:

So you are acknowledging that there may only be a few fans who are upset by this (although they could ring the RFL and get tickets) yet you are kicking off saying the RFL are incompetent. What the RFL have done here is to create a demand for tickets. It would be very interesting to know what the waiting list is at Widnes for these. I suspect not very high.

Minority means: The smaller in number of two groups forming a whole.

Few Means: Amounting to or consisting of a small number

Can you see the difference there?

Can you grasp it's significance?

As I have already told you Widnes have been unable to get tickets directly from the RFL for the final. Apparently they had sold out all the tickets that were not made available to the two finalists.

Dave T wrote:

Of course the main attraction is the NRC, however this has never been a big enough attraction in the past to sell the game out, so the RFL have taken action to sell this out, and you claim they are crap.

I know it has never sold out. The aim of doing something to fill it up more is commendable. The way they organise it is crap.

Dave T wrote:

Why would anybody travel to Blackpool, when the same press release said they can ring the RFL as they have some left?

This is what I do not understand. They have already turned away Widnes fans from buying directly from the RFL and were told that they had sold out. Why would they do this and then ask fans to buy tickets that they had been told were sold out?

That's the RFL for you.

Dave T wrote:

Of course the RFL can't say how many will be available at the time, as that depends on quite a few things.

It depends entirely on how many fans upgrade their Saturday x9‘s tickets on Saturday and Sunday. This effectively creates an unforeseeable figure. Therefore the RFL should’ve simply given Priority to the Two competing clubs and sold them tickets directly when they went on general sale, and offered to sell tickets to both days of the x9’s and, for those who want to take a chance of not getting a final ticket, an upgrade of the x9’s tickets that could be purchased on the Saturday 11th July/ Sunday 12th of July if not sold out. This is not was has happened.

Dave T wrote:

You have an average crowd of 3,700ish, and have slightly more tickets than that already sold. Widnes fans who do not have a ticket can call the RFL and get one. What exactly is the issue?

Not interested in the average attendances, only in the actual demand. That's all the RFL should be worried about.

If they have tickets left, then why did they tell Widnes fans they couldn't buy direct from them because they had sold out and could only buy direct from their clubs' allocation?

Did they lie about being sold out?

Dave T wrote:

Just imagine if you were a football fan where finals don't even cater for their season ticket holders!

No thanks

Dave T wrote:

I know it just looks as though I am disagreeing with everything you say, but that is not the case. As I said, I understand the frustration, although I don;t actually see any evidence that there are hundreds of people who can;t get a ticket (as they are still on general sale), but I do appreciate that your club could probably sell another 1k if you were given them.

I think the way it has all been handled is a joke. Telling fans they’d sold all the tickets that hadn’t been allocated to the clubs, and now saying that they have tickets available over the phone, is just plain crazy. They should've just sold them the tickets in the f*cking first place.

Dave T wrote:

For me, there are two important things here.

1) Sell the game out - it looks like for the first time this will happen, despite the fact that Widnes have played there before and apparently taken 5k, it never sold out. Cas and Hull KR have also played in this game and not managed to sell it out.

2) Ensure 'regular' fans get a ticket - by this I mean fans who make the effort to go regularly. Season ticket holders will have theirs and the regular fans will have theirs. Forget the silly argument about the 5k that turned up for the free game against Gateshead. I can counter that with the sub-2k crowd against York (if that figure is correct from your website). The fact is that for a lot of standard games, you will get around 3.2k fans and these will all be going, if they want to.

1) For me. Insure as many fans of the competing clubs get a ticket and that they, and they alone, have priority. (obviously along with the sponsors)

2) Don't hold a x9's tournament in the middle of the season.

3)If you must hold a x9's Tournament: Do not put yourself in a position where you try to guess how many of the x9's supporters might go to the final and have to turn down fans of the two competing clubs, because you are holding back a ridiculous amount of tickets for the x9's as you have promised they can all be upgraded and don't want egg on your face.

4) get pi55ied destroy

Dave T wrote:

If this game sells out (indications are that it probably will) then would you still argue that the RFL are incompetent?

Every f*cking time

Dave T wrote:

Their job is to sell the event out. When you took 5k it didn't sell out, so if they can give you 1300 tickets less and still sell it out, would you still claim they are $hite? Remember, this isn;t all about what suits you and your fans, this is about the game as a whole.[/

The job is to hold a cup final for the fans of the clubs involved and the sponsors who are paying for it. If it doesn't sell out, it doesn't sell out.

Holding a x9's tournament mid-season and managing the whole thing the way they have has been a complete farce.

Are you from the RFL?

: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:50 pm  

Pepe wrote:

As I have already told you Widnes have been unable to get tickets directly from the RFL for the final. Apparently they had sold out all the tickets that were not made available to the two finalists.

Where have they claimed that they have sold out the tickets other than for the two finalists? If that was the case, the game would be sold out now (bar the 100 or so that Barrow haven;t sold yet).

I know it has never sold out. The aim of doing something to fill it up more is commendable. The way they organise it is crap.

Why? As per my previous point about if Gateshead would have played Leigh for example, there would have been a couple of thousand empty seats. For your argument it is unfortunate that two well supported teams have made the final, as i has led to a situation where you can;t have as many tickets as you want.

This is what I do not understand. They have already turned away Widnes fans from buying directly from the RFL and were told that they had sold out. Why would they do this and then ask fans to buy tickets that they had been told were sold out?

Again, I have never seen them claim they had sold out, and all the other club's websites say you can upgrade your 9's ticket by ringing the RFL. No mention of sold out.

It depends entirely on how many fans upgrade their Saturday x9‘s tickets on Saturday and Sunday. This effectively creates an unforeseeable figure. Therefore the RFL should’ve simply given Priority to the Two competing clubs and sold them tickets directly when they went on general sale, and offered to sell tickets to both days of the x9’s and, for those who want to take a chance of not getting a final ticket, an upgrade of the x9’s tickets that could be purchased on the Saturday 11th July/ Sunday 12th of July if not sold out. This is not was has happened.

So what if Widnes and Barrow sold every ticket available? Is that fair on fans who want to see their team in the 9's? Surely those fans would be in a worse position than you are now. Whether you like it or not, this is now a triple header. Call it anothing event all you want, you don;t actually know yet, It may turn out to be a hugely enjoyable event, and a permanent fixture each year, and one that helps the Finals day sell out.

Not interested in the average attendances, only in the actual demand. That's all the RFL should be worried about.

Not when they have a stadium available to them which has a limited capacity. After this year this should never be an issue, but with a 9,600 capacity they need to be careful. They will have based tickets on things like average attendances and ST holders.

If they have tickets left, then why did they tell Widnes fans they couldn't buy direct from them because they had sold out and could only buy direct from their clubs' allocation?

Again, never heard anything about this, although there was a time where they stopped selling through the RFL Ticketline, I tried to get some. Who knows why, they may have been holding a second allocation back for Barrow, who didn't need them.

1) For me. Insure as many fans of the competing clubs get a ticket and that they, and they alone, have priority. (obviously along with the sponsors)

Competing clubs include the 4 9's finalists, whether you like it or not. The RFL are doing exactly what you suggest in point 1.

2) Don't hold a x9's tournament in the middle of the season.

Why? Just because it doesn't suit you this year?

3)If you must hold a x9's Tournament: Do not put yourself in a position where you try to guess how many of the x9's supporters might go to the final and have to turn down fans of the two competing clubs, because you are holding back a ridiculous amount of tickets for the x9's as you have promised they can all be upgraded and don't want egg on your face.

I have already pointed out that I believe they will only be holding back a few hundred at the very most for the 9's. If they had 2k tickets still o sell at this point, they would not have made a press release about the event being sold out.

Every f*cking time

This shows that you have a chip on your shoulder then about the RFL. If they sell this event out, they have made a good decision.

The job is to hold a cup final for the fans of the clubs involved and the sponsors who are paying for it. If it doesn't sell out, it doesn't sell out.

No, their job is to sell it out, which is much better for thir sponsors. By making it a finals day which features 6 teams, they have upped the chances of it being sold out for the first time.

Holding a x9's tournament mid-season and managing the whole thing the way they have has been a complete farce.

Fair enough, your opinion.

Are you from the RFL?

Jesus no, I'd never work for them and take the stick from fans no matter what you do!

I think I said about four posts ago that that would be my last post, so this on definitely is

We obviously don;t agree on this, which is fine, and it is what these boards are about, anyway enjoy your final, despite being a Wire fan, I will be supporting you, as I'dlike to see you in SL next time!

: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:09 pm  

Dave T wrote:

Where have they claimed that they have sold out the tickets other than for the two finalists? If that was the case, the game would be sold out now (bar the 100 or so that Barrow haven;t sold yet).

People I know, and fans on the TIW board have stated that, when they phoned the RFL after Widnes qualified for the final, they were told that the tickets were sold out. In fact, I have heard of no one, other than those who bought tickets for the x9’s, who had got Final tickets from the RFL.

Dave T wrote:

Why? As per my previous point about if Gateshead would have played Leigh for example, there would have been a couple of thousand empty seats. For your argument it is unfortunate that two well supported teams have made the final, as i has led to a situation where you can;t have as many tickets as you want.

I have explained several times why I think the whole thing is a farce, as well as badly organised, and I have no intention of repeating myself. If you don’t agree with it, you don’t agree with it. It won’t change my stance.

Dave T wrote:

Again, I have never seen them claim they had sold out, and all the other club's websites say you can upgrade your 9's ticket by ringing the RFL. No mention of sold out.

Well I have, and that’s why I’m not happy about the way it was organised.

Dave T wrote:

So what if Widnes and Barrow sold every ticket available? Is that fair on fans who want to see their team in the 9's? Surely those fans would be in a worse position than you are now. Whether you like it or not, this is now a triple header. Call it anothing event all you want, you don;t actually know yet, It may turn out to be a hugely enjoyable event, and a permanent fixture each year, and one that helps the Finals day sell out.

Nonsense, the x9’s is nothing more than warm up game for the final that has been put in place with the sole purpose of attracting a few more species to the game. It is nothing like the Grand Finals, where there is a vitally important aspect in winning the game. I very much doubt it would mean a great deal for the fans of the x9’s tournament, if they missed out. The importance of this game to Barrow and Widnes could be immeasurable for their long term futures, and being there means a lot more than watching a meaningless x9’s tournament that no one particularly wants, including most of the clubs and players. You really couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.

Dave T wrote:

Not when they have a stadium available to them which has a limited capacity. After this year this should never be an issue, but with a 9,600 capacity they need to be careful. They will have based tickets on things like average attendances and ST holders.

If they base cup final attendance figures merely on average attendances and ST holders, then the RFL deserve all the criticism they get. Finals will always attract more fans from the clubs contesting them. Not only does it provide a better atmosphere, but it also gives those clubs a chance to expand their fan base and develop. This must surely be a major factor in reaching a final and also an incentive? To deny the finalists this opportunity is, in its self, disgraceful imo.

Dave T wrote:

Competing clubs include the 4 9's finalists, whether you like it or not. The RFL are doing exactly what you suggest in point 1.

This is the Northern Rail Cup final. If the x9’s was an important stand alone final, it would have it’s own day in it’s own stadium, or a bigger stadium would be used to accommodate all of the fans, no matter which clubs qualify.

Dave T wrote:

Why? Just because it doesn't suit you this year?

Nope. It makes no odds to me, but clubs who have to take part in it that are fighting for top 6 places and against relegation, would disagree. It’s a stupid idea to hold, what amounts to a friendly competition, mid season. Try answering Starbugs question, instead of telling us how wonderful and important YOU think it is.

Do you think they would do such a thing in SL?

How would they react to a competition like the 9 's if they were told to attend with 1 st team squads?

There'd be f*cking murder, and you know there would.

Dave T wrote:

This shows that you have a chip on your shoulder then about the RFL. If they sell this event out, they have made a good decision.

Make no bones about it; I despise them with every fibre of my being but, if I thought this was a good idea, I’d grudgingly say so. I think this could’ve been handled much better.

Dave T wrote:

Fair enough, your opinion.

And that’s all I’ve ever expressed it as.

Dave T wrote:

We obviously don;t agree on this, which is fine, and it is what these boards are about, anyway enjoy your final, despite being a Wire fan, I will be supporting you, as I'dlike to see you in SL next time!

Well at least we can agree on summat.

Cheers!