: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:41 pm  

In EnemyTerritory wrote:

Why isn't there any doubt.. in previous club evenings it has been clearly stated that Steve McCormack is responsible for identifying the players he wants. As he said.. he then can get on with the coaching side of things whilst TOC works on bringing the players in.
I think TOC was involved initially in the Smith, Kavannagh and Tyrer loan deals but they were all sanctioned by Steve Mac

Im not saying he has taken over the reigns of recruitment but what does a director of rugby get involved in if he doesnt assist the coach in identifying and picking up players ?

: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:43 pm  

maurice wrote:

OK Leigh, we, celebrated Friday but mainly because we expected a drubbing.
I am not enjoying this years comp at all, some very poor RL on show and some awful reffing. I wonder if its a side effect of last years events?
Fax and Barrow seem to sign everything that moves, you're FT with an expensive squad that isnt firing yet, Fev are a strange outfit and the rest are fighting over scraps.
The only consolation is that I am enjoying SL even less, am I becoming totally disenfranchised with RL in general - I think I am not the only one who is.

totally agree with everything you said
rl's just so boring in general now that there's no real competition in either super or national league. Dare i say it, but promotion and relegation was the only thing that made rugby exciting.

: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:50 pm  

widneslardboy wrote:

Im not saying he has taken over the reigns of recruitment but what does a director of rugby get involved in if he doesnt assist the coach in identifying and picking up players ?

TOC's mandate is responsibility for negotiating contracts and holding transfer talks with targeted players.
He is also a contact that picks up the phone to coaches when clubs try to send players out on loan.
His day to day job is more concerned with the welfare and support of the playing staff.. i.e. accommodation issues, family matters that affect the club, education and training for life after rugby. All the day to day problems that would normally tie up a coaches hands to an extent.

Any players signed by the club have to be ratified by the coach. The club learnt it's lessons from the Fleet / Chambers / Vaughan days (who I hear is ill, which is a real shame as he's a true gent) days when players where signed without the backing agreement of the coach.

: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:41 pm  

So you've gone from this:

widneslardboy wrote:

IET, there isnt any doubt that TOC was involved with the recruitment this year along with Steve Mc.

Here you're saying, in so many words: ' TOC is directly responsible for saying who we recruit and who we don't...'


to...

widneslardboy wrote:

Im not saying he has taken over the reigns of recruitment but what does a director of rugby get involved in if he doesnt assist the coach in identifying and picking up players ?

Admitting: 'I don't really know'

You're normally a well informed poster. What's happened to you?

If you can point me to any information, put out by the club, that TOC is responsible for player recruitment (other than administrative duties) could you point it out please?


All I'm seeing at the moment is a lot of scapegoating. Even Tim Holmes is getting stick.

: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:51 pm  

In EnemyTerritory wrote:

Completely incorrect...
Steve McCormack selected the players, TOC then has the job of getting those players in. The choice of players rests with the coach.

Still doesn't stop the few who, just because things aren't going our way need to find someone at the club to start a vendetta against.

: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:55 pm  

My understanding of TOC's role is that the coach tells him who he wants, Terry does all the negotiations and does the contract side of things.

Terry also looks after the player welfare off the field, leaving the coach to concentrate purely on the field.

Not that difficult to understand is it?

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:35 am  

Apparantly the club officials have already said at the curry evening at the Crown that it was McCormack who was selecting the players for this season. Until SM or somebody from the club comes out and says otherwise then surely we have to believe it.

Regardless of who signed the players, pre-season we all pretty much agreed that we had a squad capable of topping the table. Probably 1 or 2 props short, but I think we expected the class of certain players to shine through. Its criminal the way the prop situation was allowed to happen, but IMO the lack of cutting edge on the opponent line and the general lack of killer instinct has surprised everyone.

I'm not sure where the problem lies, the fact we're struggling thorugh games and halfbacks are not always producing their best form could be excused by the fact we don't have a very big pack. On the other hand, when we're camped on the opposition line and we still can't score because we look slow and predictable - this cannot be excused by the prop situation. So the only conclusion can be that a few of the players we expected to be top class have not produced the goods so far and this has not been helped by the fact that a) we've had tons of injuries and b) the forwards have struggled to get on top in games.

We seem to be getting players back form injury now and some players are starting to show what they can do, so we might not be that far away from being a decent side. If we can play ourselves into a bit of form and if we can bring in a decent prop (probably unlikely) we might just start to look like contenders.

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:46 am  

McCormack signed these players because they have played well in the past either against us or for us and when the club signed these players in the off season we were all excited because they were good players and big name signings. McCormack got sacked after the oldham game which we lost because we only had 12 men on the field but my point is these are mccormack signings which i think he would off got the best out of given more time especially in attack. cullen has taken charge now who i fully back and given the right time and a chance to bring in his own players for next season should bring us success. hopefully he can turn it around this season but if not lets hope we get it right for next season.

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:04 am  

Re your post V4E that has pretty much been my assessment of things as it currently stands...
We identified a problem with the pack but on evidence we haven't really suffered as a result. With Morrison and Bannister to come back in this area we will be stronger and the signing of a recognised prop would give us that extra something.
We are making it to the opposition's line but that is where we falter.
I keep thinking that we are in many ways like Cas in their last season in the 1st Division. They stumbled along whilst Brough was having a bit of a mare early doors and then something clicked with him and their season turned around.
If we can get our players to click and play as we know they can and have seen them play then I think we really will go from strength to strength.

It's becoming a bit of a slogan for me but a little more guile is what is needed..

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:56 pm  

vikings 4 ever wrote:

Apparantly the club officials have already said at the curry evening at the Crown that it was McCormack who was selecting the players for this season. Until SM or somebody from the club comes out and says otherwise then surely we have to believe it.

Regardless of who signed the players, pre-season we all pretty much agreed that we had a squad capable of topping the table. Probably 1 or 2 props short, but I think we expected the class of certain players to shine through. Its criminal the way the prop situation was allowed to happen, but IMO the lack of cutting edge on the opponent line and the general lack of killer instinct has surprised everyone.

I'm not sure where the problem lies, the fact we're struggling thorugh games and halfbacks are not always producing their best form could be excused by the fact we don't have a very big pack. On the other hand, when we're camped on the opposition line and we still can't score because we look slow and predictable - this cannot be excused by the prop situation. So the only conclusion can be that a few of the players we expected to be top class have not produced the goods so far and this has not been helped by the fact that a) we've had tons of injuries and b) the forwards have struggled to get on top in games.

We seem to be getting players back form injury now and some players are starting to show what they can do, so we might not be that far away from being a decent side. If we can play ourselves into a bit of form and if we can bring in a decent prop (probably unlikely) we might just start to look like contenders.

To an extent you're right, about us not being able to turn pressure on the opposition line into points, being a problem. But we do tend to run, our often smaller forwards, in to bigger opposition forwards under the posts. They are dealt with easily and we are kept out. If we had a couple of big yard dogs running at them, we may actually break through once in a while, or make the opposition bring in an extra man from outside to deal with them, thus creating space out wide for our backs to exploit.

Have you also noticed that we haven't managed to tire out many, if any, of our part-time opponents? In fact many of them have finished the game looking as strong, if not stronger!