: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:41 pm  

Moose's Flymo wrote:

Dave T, I know this is a very long shot but do you know if there will be any tickets on sale for neutrals for your CC semi at the Stobart??

: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:43 pm  

Dave T wrote:

Look at international events in Union, they attract thousands and thousands of fans, whereas League fans would rather sit at homemoaning about how the RFL are idiots.

I've made a slight adjustment to this post for you in order to put this ridiculous statement in it's perspective.

: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:48 pm  

Dave T wrote:

Also, with regards to the 9's people are being ridiculous. If the clubs don;t want sponsors and profil, fine, don;t bother with things like this, but to bang on about injuries is nonsense. The players will be playing less than they would if it was a full round of league fixtures. This adds some variety to the season, an okay, you may not like the sound of it, but that doesn;t mean the RFL have cocked up. Let's just see how it goes first. It may turn out to be an event which goes well and runs each year, just like the Union tournaments.

The fact is, the RFL have given you an allocation, which you have sold out. If there are any spare closer to the time, they will release them. The 9's thing is an unknown so they may be playing it safe in terms of holding tickets back, as some clubs may get behind it and sell a couple of hundred each, we'll see.

With regards to the numbers likely to turn out for the x9’s, my conclusions are personal, culled from a number of areas such as, experience of this league and opinions gleaned from supporters within this league of the x9’s event, as well as my own ambivalence towards it. I am fully aware that I cannot put forward an empirical figure. That evidence is remarkably and uniquely difficult to present exactly, since it is necessarily anecdotal. That does not make its truth any less apparent to the witnesses. We can put forward a pretty good guess; based on previous events and the feelings many Championship fans have towards, what mounts to a mid season friendly, which occurs at a very important part of the season where the fates of clubs will be decided. I am supremely confident that this tournament will be dropped for next season.

In other words, it is an ill thought out and unwanted load of bollox and will fall flat on its ar5e. So give the supporters who really want to go to the game f*cking tickets.

Dave T wrote:

Also, with regards to the capacity, they will have looked and seen that Widnes get less than 4k fans, Barrow get around 2k, there is plenty of space there. As I have said, they are not here to cater for the armchair fans, which would mean them hiring a bigger stadium which leaves them at risk of thousands of empty seats if two lower teams were to make it to the final.

Here are two games where we got over 5,000 fans who attended a game this season. Just taking the average and insisting that all the supporters who have been to watch Widnes are included in that figure is as erroneous as it is completely fatuous.

Two games of over 5,000 this season:
Widnes V Gateshead
Stobart Stadium, Att: 5,236 (Pretty much all Widnes fans)

Widnes V Toulouse
Stobart Stadium, Att: 5,074 (Pretty much all Widnes fans)

A lot of people who have not just ‘sat in their armchair’ will miss out, and miss out for no reason at all.

As far as releasing tickets later is concerned, that will just reduce the number of fans that would’ve actually gone. There is no promise by the RFL of a future release of any more tickets to the fans of Widnes or Batley, so many are likely to make other plans and the impulse to go will be lost. The many that would still go may not be able to get transport sorted (We don’t all own cars). There may be no time to book enough coaches and there are no special trains being laid on by the RFL. It is doubtful that the regular trains for Blackpool could handle any extra travellers at the busiest time of the year when day-trippers will also be heading to Blackpool too. It’s going to be choka as it is with the Widnes fans that are going on those trains on the day already.

There will now be gaping areas of Bloomfield Road that will look empty. That would not be good for the sponsors, will not show this league in a good light and will disappoint a lot of fans needlessly. You could still augment the crowd with a few hundred fans who want to watch the x9's as well as the extra Widnes/Barrow fans. That would have made for a nice full house.

Ah well....

Brewery a RFL pissup in.

: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:06 pm  

Moose's Flymo wrote:

Dave T, I know this is a very long shot but do you know if there will be any tickets on sale for neutrals for your CC semi at the Stobart??

Tickets were held back for the sponsors, but as Pepe pointed out, it isn;t a like for like comparison.

There will be plenty for the final.

: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:12 pm  

Pepe wrote:

With regards to the numbers likely to turn out for the x9’s, my conclusions are personal, culled from a number of areas such as, experience of this league and opinions gleaned from supporters within this league of the x9’s event, as well as my own ambivalence towards it. I am fully aware that I cannot put forward an empirical figure. That evidence is remarkably and uniquely difficult to present exactly, since it is necessarily anecdotal. That does not make its truth any less apparent to the witnesses. We can put forward a pretty good guess; based on previous events and the feelings many Championship fans have towards, what mounts to a mid season friendly, which occurs at a very important part of the season where the fates of clubs will be decided. I am supremely confident that this tournament will be dropped for next season.

In other words, it is an ill thought out and unwanted load of bollox and will fall flat on its ar5e. So give the supporters who really want to go to the game f*cking tickets.


Here are two games where we got over 5,000 fans who attended a game this season. Just taking the average and insisting that all the supporters who have been to watch Widnes are included in that figure is as erroneous as it is completely fatuous.

Two games of over 5,000 this season:
Widnes V Gateshead
Stobart Stadium, Att: 5,236 (Pretty much all Widnes fans)

Widnes V Toulouse
Stobart Stadium, Att: 5,074 (Pretty much all Widnes fans)

A lot of people who have not just ‘sat in their armchair’ will miss out, and miss out for no reason at all.

As far as releasing tickets later is concerned, that will just reduce the number of fans that would’ve actually gone. There is no promise by the RFL of a future release of any more tickets to the fans of Widnes or Batley, so many are likely to make other plans and the impulse to go will be lost. The many that would still go may not be able to get transport sorted (We don’t all own cars). There may be no time to book enough coaches and there are no special trains being laid on by the RFL. It is doubtful that the regular trains for Blackpool could handle any extra travellers at the busiest time of the year when day-trippers will also be heading to Blackpool too. It’s going to be choka as it is with the Widnes fans that are going on those trains on the day already.

There will now be gaping areas of Bloomfield Road that will look empty. That would not be good for the sponsors, will not show this league in a good light and will disappoint a lot of fans needlessly. You could still augment the crowd with a few hundred fans who want to watch the x9's as well as the extra Widnes/Barrow fans. That would have made for a nice full house.

Ah well....

Brewery a RFL pissup in.

Not sure about the Toulouse game, but I do know that the Gateshead game was free of charge.

I think it was you who pointed out that this game never usually sells out, so the RFL have done something about that.

Just because that doesn't involve your armchair fans doesn;t mean that the RFL are clueless.

If the RFL do not release any more tickets to Widnes before the final and there are empty seats, then you will be right. If it is sold out, then they have done the right thing by the game (not necessarily Widnes fans). Their responsibility lies with their sponsors to make the event a success, they must have already commited to hold tickets back for the 9's teams, they can't just now sell those on tgo Widnes because your armchair fans want a ticket!

FWIW, I do know how frustrating it is, for the semi there are three of us with Season Tickets, so that is all that is going, when I know I could have brought quite a few friends and family who would attend the big events, however the RFL can't make plans based on this, especially when RL fans are well known for not supporting certain events.

: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:13 pm  

Pepe wrote:

I've made a slight adjustment to this post for you in order to put this ridiculous statement in it's perspective.

Doesn't actually mean anything at all that change, we aren't talking about International games.

You were right to leave the bit about League fans sitting at home moaning though.

: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:31 pm  

Dave T wrote:

Doesn't actually mean anything at all that change, we aren't talking about International games.

You were right to leave the bit about League fans sitting at home moaning though.

If the highest level of RL cannot compete with Union at international level, what chance has a meaningless lower league RL x9's competition got with competing, or getting anywhere near as sucsessful as a RU x9's tournament?

There can be no comparison.

Most lower league clubs take few, if any, fans away from home and many don't even get that that many at home either.

So the idea they'll turn up in their thousands to a two day meaningless x9's tournament, and all the traveling and expense that would incur, is deluded.

Blackpool Panthers probably average around 350/400. I would expect those to go to the first day of the x9's, when their team will be involved, with maybe a further 800 - 1000 fans from other clubs involved. Probably 300-500 of those may attend the final in Blackpool.

I'm being optimistic here too.

: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:40 pm  

Pepe wrote:

If the highest level of RL cannot compete with Union at international level, what chance has a meaningless lower league RL x9's competition got with competing, or getting anywhere near as sucsessful as a RU x9's tournament?

There can be no comparison.

Most lower league clubs take few, if any, fans away from home and many don't even get that that many at home either.

So the idea they'll turn up in their thousands to a two day meaningless x9's tournament, and all the traveling and expense that would incur, is deluded.

Blackpool Panthers probably average around 350/400. I would expect those to go to the first day of the x9's, when their team will be involved, with maybe a further 800 - 1000 fans from other clubs involved. Probably 300-500 of those may attend the final in Blackpool.

I'm being optimistic here too.

What is the capacity for this game? On Wikipedia it says that ground hold 9,600 although that includes the temporary East Stand, so not sure if that is there for the Final.

If you and Barrow sell 7,500-8000 between you, then when you take out the sponsors tickets and tickets sold through the RFL prior to th semis, you may only actually be left with 8-900 tickets to sell.

If all 18 teams took a coachload, that would be 900 fans (I know that may be unlikely, but you can only guestimate)

Again, these are all estimates, but it sort of confirms to me that the RFL have to be careful here, and can;t just give you another 500 or so, as they could end up in trouble if the 9's sales go as expected.

: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:46 pm  

Dave T wrote:

What is the capacity for this game? On Wikipedia it says that ground hold 9,600 although that includes the temporary East Stand, so not sure if that is there for the Final.

If you and Barrow sell 7,500-8000 between you, then when you take out the sponsors tickets and tickets sold through the RFL prior to th semis, you may only actually be left with 8-900 tickets to sell.

If all 18 teams took a coachload, that would be 900 fans (I know that may be unlikely, but you can only guestimate)

Again, these are all estimates, but it sort of confirms to me that the RFL have to be careful here, and can;t just give you another 500 or so, as they could end up in trouble if the 9's sales go as expected.

Therefore another venue should have been chosen for the Final and 9's comp

: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:49 pm  

SNOT-HIM08 wrote:

Therefore another venue should have been chosen for the Final and 9's comp

I suppose that's a slightly diffeent debate, but bearing in mind that this game has sold out only once, and had Widnes not got there this year it wouldn;t have been a problm, then it is a big move.

The game is staged in Blackpool to give it a unique factor, rather than just being played at somewhere like the Halliwell Jones or Headingley.