Re: Worst defensive effort I've seen in years. : Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:32 pm  

A few things to straighten out I think.

1. I'm not anti cullen in any way.
2. I like to think I am a realist and speak my mind and more often than not, the truth.
3. I don't like the idea of saying that we only have 17 fit players when clearly we have more. Whether they are capable of playing first team is a different issue entirely.

I'd say that from the '17 fit players' there were more than a couple who arent good enough to play first team anyway. Does this mean Cullen should declare that we only have 14/15 first team players available?

The point that I am making is that we are a professional club with a seriously large group of players (all levels) and there are teams in a farse worse position than us.

London Skolars as it says in the papers today had 17 available players. Thats 17 players only!

They are in a worse position than us.

In terms of teams that have missed two front rowers for large parts of the season and still competed, I remember the st helens team of around 2003??? I may be wrong on the year, but they lost 3 or 4 front rowers if i remember correctly. The only thing that brings this to mind is that they recruited Heath Cruickshank, Paul Southern and another second rate player on short term loans to fill the void.
My Granddad is a BIG saints fan. (thanks for the info granddad)

Re: Worst defensive effort I've seen in years. : Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:35 pm  

Fingerposts Finest had strong St Helens links. Take off that mask !!!!

Re: Worst defensive effort I've seen in years. : Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:49 pm  

littlerich wrote:

Fingerposts Finest had strong St Helens links. Take off that mask !!!!

You velly wise rittlelich!!

Re: Worst defensive effort I've seen in years. : Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:51 pm  

RLIMR wrote:

You had conceeded shed loads of points before yesterdays game though hadn't you? Even in victory. So it shouldn't come as that much of a suprise. Cullen can't seem to coach defence particularly goal line defence. Teams finding it far too easy to score when attacking the line was a big problem for Warrington under Cullen also.

Scoring tries is never a problem though. But saying you score 30, we'll score 32 will only get you so far.

Nail Head hit

Re: Worst defensive effort I've seen in years. : Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:57 pm  

No conspiracy theory or hidden agendas here unfortunately redchemic and littlerich.

Re: Worst defensive effort I've seen in years. : Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:00 pm  

Fair enough peter, although your anti Cullen agenda is less than well hidden .

Re: Worst defensive effort I've seen in years. : Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:02 pm  

I honestly dont have an antil cullen agenda. TOC, thats a different issue though! Joke before you lot start

Re: Worst defensive effort I've seen in years. : Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:51 pm  

peterw wrote:

Hi all, I'm new to the forum scene, and let me firstly say that I am a Widnes fan and am not a troll!

Ok, that out of the way, here's my opinion on the current subject.

The defensive performance was inept, and hasn't improved from early in the season. I'm assuming that Cullen knows a thing or two about coaching, and would have highlighted defence as an area of improvement.

My issue is simple. How can he suggest that the club are down to the bare bones? I think he has a cheek to use this as an excuse. Widnes Vikings have 3 teams. Approximately 70 players i'd guess. Sure, the majority aren't ready for 1st team action and true, the reserves and kids havent played yet or are in early season, but its not as if there is a player shortage.

I'm referring to the problems that other clubs are currently going through, which puts things into perspective. London Skolars were down to their last 17 at the weekend. Rochdale Hornets were down to the last 17 this weekend. This is to name just two. These are teams with genuine injury problems who DO NOT have any other teams to use players.

There has been no denying the poor defence from the coaching staff which is fair enough, but dont blame it on 'not having our strongest team available'. How often does a team have the strongest team available with everybody fit?

Deal with the problem. Simple as that.

Our squad was somewhat weakened anyway by trying to blood as many youngsters as we are in the first team squad. It only takes the loss of a few experienced first team players and we would already be struggling against most teams - most of which will be able to compete easier on the lower £300,000 cap. If we’d assembled a strong, experienced squad like Halifax Fev and Barrow, and still had our academies in place, then you may have had a point – all be it a very shaky one imo. Several players are also playing with injuries. We probably don’t even have the luxury of a fully fit 17 man team as a result!

As it is, we now find ourselves struggling with ten injuries and three missing dual-contract players. Despite this, we have done well imo, to get the wins we have. We’ve used 27 players already, and we’ve only played 6 rounds. I’d be surprised if we didn’t look disjointed. We just haven’t had a settled side.


This is most certainly the reason for our struggling displays recently. Cullen also hasn’t actually been able to field his best 17 all season so far.

Lot’s of injuries affects sides. Both Rochdale and Harlequins (your examples) are struggling badly and Leeds, with 9 injured players, are out of the top eight after 11 rounds. This is the club that won the comp last season! Our position isn’t so different as theirs, as you seem to be suggesting.

If we start to get some players back, I think we’ll get better. We aren’t too far off it even now. A lot does ride on the performances of our two props the club have brought in on loan. Hopefully they’ll settle in quickly and our run of bad luck with injuries ceases.

Re: Worst defensive effort I've seen in years. : Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:37 pm  

Just to make a final point on this before I leave the subject alone, with a much stronger squad in the earlier rounds, we still conceded far too many points and the defence looked very suspect.

Cant use the injured players excuse for shoddy defence when you have the majority of your squad fit.

Re: Worst defensive effort I've seen in years. : Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:15 pm  

peterw wrote:

Just to make a final point on this before I leave the subject alone, with a much stronger squad in the earlier rounds, we still conceded far too many points and the defence looked very suspect.

Cant use the injured players excuse for shoddy defence when you have the majority of your squad fit.

We’ve been carrying injuries since the start of the season, so we can blame them for our current and past defensive form, including no Haggy, and pick's playing with a neck injury. WE HAVE NOT SEEN OUR FULL STREGNTH TEAM YET!!!!! Using lot’s youngsters – which is a good thing by the way – will also weaken your defence in this league. The demanding physical nature of the game is unforgiving of age and experience. But they can only get that experience by playing and toughening up as they get used to the step up from junior rugby.

I think you are simply jumping to conclusions without looking at the situation and what the club and coach are trying to achieve in bringing in lots youngsters to the first team squad, with a view to the licencing process etc...

Only time will tell if your view of Cullen’s defencive organization of the team is good or not. Now is not the time to make that judgment – it just isn’t.