Re: Sack Betts and Cullen : Sat May 05, 2012 1:10 am  

Pepe wrote:

Whilst I'm sure the club did offer Tim Sheens the head coaching position, there was never a cat in hells chance of him coming here. I actually think that the club are bullshitting us here. It seems clear that Denis Betts was always going to be the coach. This was just a smokescreen to pacify the fans into accepting Betts. "We tried to get the best coaches in the world but they turned us down" They must think we were born loving yesterday. It insults your intelligence.

I, for one, don't appreciate being lied to. Betts is a total crock of sh/te and that is why the team are hopeless. We are not following the Huddersfield route, as we are not investing in the first team. SOC has invested a small fortune in the clubs infrastructure and yet skimped on the first team with poor players and an almost worthless coach, who was out of his depth in the Championship. SOC didn't want Sheens here precisely because he would attract top wage earners and if anything, the last 4 years has shown us, it is that the club don't do that. The first thing they did, after taking over,was set in motion a process to get rid of the higher paid players, no matter how good or committed they were. They replaced them with out of favour under 25's from other clubs and crocks. Why? because they are loving cheep. Why Denis Betts? Because he was probably the only coach who will work under such tight financial restraints.

How else do you go from trying to recruit the best coach on the planet and end up with Denis Betts?

If you are going to be spend thrift on the first team you, at least, need an experienced coach who can get the most out of what he has available. Betts is clearly not capable of this.

Considering that club officials were saying that we would be spending to the full cap, everything the club have said since our arrival in SL has been a total contradiction of that. I am becoming very disillusioned with the club, and I'm finding it harder and harder to believe a single word they say, and I'll lay odds with anyone that Tim Sheens will never be the head coach at Widnes while the current board are in charge.

You've had a good break from the rugby then yea?

The Sheens to Betts thing and Lockyer to White etc was all explained by the club from the offset! They will go for World Class but if not would look for younger British based players and refused to be top dollar wages for mid caliber players. Rightly or wrongly this is what they always said so why it gets brought up time and time again is beyond me.

Also why people take an under performing first team so bloody personally is beyond me too!

Re: Sack Betts and Cullen : Sat May 05, 2012 12:06 pm  

OFFTHECUFF wrote:

Heard from a good source a few players do not understand him and his tactics.They don't enjoy his coaching.

Ill second that heard it from the horses mouth FACT !

Re: Sack Betts and Cullen : Sat May 05, 2012 1:14 pm  

J20 wrote:

The Sheens to Betts thing and Lockyer to White etc was all explained by the club from the offset! They will go for World Class but if not would look for younger British based players and refused to be top dollar wages for mid caliber players. Rightly or wrongly this is what they always said so why it gets brought up time and time again is beyond me.

Which "World Class" players are Widnes going to attract?

I'll answer that for you - NONE

So what does that statement actually mean then, Joey?

I'll answer it for you again - They'll bring in 25 and under cast off's from other clubs and bad boys full of baggage and loan players. They have tried it in the Championship and it failed miserably. They are now doing the same thing in Super League to loving disastrous effect. It's a completely meaningless statement that is designed to confuse the brainless into accepting mediocrity.

So talking of bringing in "world class" players is nothing more than a way of bamboozling the fans into accepting the 3rd class dross that they do bring in, because they have put us under the impression that the club really has ambition, when in reality they haven't.

Now, I fully understand that it was going to be difficult for us to recruit quality players - never mind "world class" - so, I was reasonably happy with some of the recruitment. The players themselves, on an individual basis, are pretty much your bog standard, bottom of the league stuff. All we were ever likely to get, but they are performing like a mid-table Championship team. This is, in part, because we have no halfbacks. We have none, because they didn't bother to recruit any. We've got a scrum half, in Rhys Hanbury, who is actually a fullback/utility back and a stand off, in Anthony Watts, who is actually a hooker. This leaves us with Danny Craven, who is very inexperienced at this level. I don't think we've even kicked a single 40/20 all season. Given that our home ground is perfect for this, it shows just why we are struggling. We are a team that will always be on the back foot and, without a good kicking game we'll struggle to relive this pressure.


Then there is the coach. We are being told now that he was only supposed to be a no2 to Tim Sheens. They never said any of this at the time of his appointment, just that they tried to get Sheens but ended up with Betts. As we were never going to get Sheens, the club are bullshitting yet again. I'll ask again, How do you try for the best coach on the planet and end up with one of the worst?

Denis Betts was very poor in the Championship and now is proving to be a disaster in Super League. What other club would have given him a 2-year Super League contract after such an abysmal period in charge of the team in the Championship? It loving beggars belief. It is as if the club just wanted a coach who would be happy with the culture of mediocrity that pervades it these days; so they recruited a coach that they know would see it continue. This is despite Terry O'Connor telling anyone who would listen that Widnes will be spending to the full salary cap when in Super League.

Every other aspect of the club is top notch, but the main aspect of the business is left to rot. The absolute minimum is put into it. It doesn't seem at all important to them. It has been this way ever since SOC took over. Yet he just expects fans to turn out to watch it in their thousands, regardless of the dross they serve up. More than that, he expects people who were not fans before to suddenly become VSH members. He is telling us that he was told that we'd get thousands more fans, just because we were in Super League. He doesn't say who told him that though, or why a such a mickey poor, under performing team should be capable of attracting large numbers of fans.

I could go on and on about so many contradictions that have been coming out of the club these last few years, and what is happening seems to be starting to look like an exit strategy by SOC. He is trying to manoeuvre the fans into a position where he can hold them to blame for not turning out and supporting the club. All he'll have to say is that he delivered on his promise of getting us to Super League. It looks like a pretty hollow promise at the moment.

J20 wrote:

Also why people take an under performing first team so bloody personally is beyond me too!

What I take personally is being lied to. I don't like being fed bullshit either.

Re: Sack Betts and Cullen : Sun May 06, 2012 11:25 am  

Totally agree with you Pepe.
If, as we were told they went for world class players & a coach & were turned down, then why;
Didn't they look a lower calibre Aussie coach? (Salford did & so did both Hull clubs) So Denis could be their number 2. Or even an English coach Noble-Kear-Powell-even Justin Morgan as he has just done what we are aiming to do with Hull KR
Why didn't they look for a better class of player than we have now?
I have listened to & read the reasons given for this & have come to the same conclusion as Pepe.

Widnes were going to spend vast amounts of money on world class but because they couldn't get them they decided to make do (smells like bulls~~t to me). Looks as though the thinking is leave it as it is & hope our youngsters come through. Well it hasn't happened & the first good one will be leaving us (Mull)

Which leaves our club in an awful mess as we are dire meaning that fans aren't turning up, less income, less salary cap= downward spiral.

If the club don't act all the effort & money getting us to SL will be wasted as we will be back in the championship in 2 years

Re: Sack Betts and Cullen : Sun May 06, 2012 5:02 pm  

Aaaanyhoo, your second favourite club (Halifax) smashed Fev today on their own middin' 12-60. Fax are top o' t'league once again. It feels fan-bloody-tastic!!!

Hope you all feel better soon. You're in there for three years at least don't forget

Re: Sack Betts and Cullen : Mon May 07, 2012 7:53 am  

just to change tack slightly and take an anallergy that soc is familiar with, stobarts have the best looking fleet of trucks in the haulage business, they portray an image of being ultra professional and invest massively in their infrastructures. their drivers are amongst the worst paid

Re: Sack Betts and Cullen : Mon May 07, 2012 5:12 pm  

Betts is bullet proof.He was in RU for years and landed the Widnes job in the Championship were his mediocrity was rewarded with a SL contract.Now 13 games in with an atrocious points against record he is being defended to the hilt by his Chairman who threatens to walk if critics try to bully the coach out despite 17 games on the bounce conceding 30 plus.Talk about landing on your feet.The club then have the cheek to express disappointment at the lack of home support just because the non die hards make sensible money decisions by not attending and paying to see dross.Ironic how they talk about time and patience when it comes to the coach and team but don't seem to have much time or patience themselves when it comes to crowd numbers at the stobart.Err,It's a three year plan isn't it?Support needs to be built up gradually and patiently.Or does patience only apply when the club wants it to.

Re: Sack Betts and Cullen : Mon May 07, 2012 8:23 pm  

GSF wrote:

Betts is bullet proof.He was in RU for years and landed the Widnes job in the Championship were his mediocrity was rewarded with a SL contract.Now 13 games in with an atrocious points against record he is being defended to the hilt by his Chairman who threatens to walk if critics try to bully the coach out despite 17 games on the bounce conceding 30 plus.Talk about landing on your feet.The club then have the cheek to express disappointment at the lack of home support just because the non die hards make sensible money decisions by not attending and paying to see dross.Ironic how they talk about time and patience when it comes to the coach and team but don't seem to have much time or patience themselves when it comes to crowd numbers at the stobart.Err,It's a three year plan isn't it?Support needs to be built up gradually and patiently.Or does patience only apply when the club wants it to.

well GSF it took a good man like youreslf to represent the supporters at this meeting think if i had attended the meeting i would have totally Blown up listening to all that total Bull and escorted out the back entrance !

Re: Sack Betts and Cullen : Tue May 08, 2012 11:44 am  

Dr Chim Richalds wrote:

keeping him beyond the next three games if we don't perform would be a time to start scratching your head. Until the end of the season and I agree it's bonkers.

I do think it is likely that if we lose and lose badly at Cas then DB may be moved out.

Epic fail yesterday Denis. Time to draft the letter that begins.

Dear Mr O'Connor,
Firstly let me thank you for the wonderful opportunity and ongoing support you have given me, however after due consideration in light of recent performances......[ the rest writes itself ]

[PopTart]

Re: Sack Betts and Cullen : Tue May 08, 2012 11:54 am  

OFFTHECUFF wrote:

Well WireThunder if you think Betts and Cullen are good coaches take them off our hands.They are awful and results dont lie.So we have spent £1.4 million and Fev £300,000 in the Championship and they competed well with Castleford by beating them.We struggled in the Championship with these men in charge so what you expect from our fans.hardly posts on here as fans are now vexed off.If lose by 20 or 30 points then lose i can cope but not by this much.Wakefield have competed better, and they started from scratch with 16 new players.Powell or Noble to improve things even if lose games.

and yet our board is exactly the same as yours. No-one seems to be happy at the bottom at the moment.
For Wakefield and Widnes it is going to be a long road. Keep the faith guys.